So was I. Ha, well you're doing the right sport. I've heard several blackbelts translate Judo as "The Way of The Lazy, Old B*****d". I'm not sure I agree with you about the effort though, mainly because I'm young and dumb and would much rather throw myself into the fray and enjoy it, than sit back and conserve my energy. You'll never catch me screaming on the mats though. Yeh. You're describing the wudang to judo transition. Everyone I know who's gone to judo from tai chi (which is admittedly only a couple of other people) has said the same thing, that they can swing a fair few people round and drop them with no technique, but a reasonable amount of skill. Personally, I've made the effort to stop manhandling those poor judoka and learnt to play their game and I think it's been worth it. We all have our little weaknesses . After a reasonable amount of judo training, I really like the ground, what I have trouble with is the transition from throw to the ground. I have so much difficulty remebering to take a throw to ground. I just want to remain standing as I throw and I end up allowing the other judoka to twist out. Too many different rule sets I guess. Absolutely, but it is the abilty to do this under pressure and the practice of performing this against an intelligent use of force that so many tai chi practioners lack. Because of this, they have lost the martial from their art, and I think that's a real shame.
You allow the punch to enter, whilst disolving his energy. Once the energy has completely disolved you let it go.
to needanswer stand your ground... try driving full speed to a power pole, your car demolished. the pole still stands. action and reaction i think newton's third law...sorry if i made a mistake i suck in physics.
I agree that everyone does pushings hands different but the end result is still the same isn't it. Ok it doesn't matter about what size you are and I'm a great believer in this one lol. You don't need someone who's 6ft against another who's 5ft nothing to be able to show who's going to lose out and be dropped to the ground . What I don't agree with is that you need the energy as a main contribution for using against a person who your training with. It's much more than this, it's got to have more to do with technique than anything. When I was training in Karate, I didn't know enough about the workings of energy and we used to get on fine without having to "open up" and allow the energy to do the work. The end result was still the same folk still ended up on the floor and they still had to learn the techniques to be able to do this in a safe mannar. It's not about being soft, you can go in and show without going in like a bull in a china shop and still get the same effect. lisa xx
I am young and dumb and a big ******* to boot, and I am the first on the mat for sparring the Judo way, I am talking busting your hole to get a move in, not standing about doing nothing. If someone is resisting a throw, I am not going to keep trying until I overpower them and throw them, as I said I bring my Tai Chi principles to Judo, big resistance means a change. I also do Jujitsu too, which is much harder than Judo. Big powerful blocks, but i'm not down with that, I don't block, I deflect, but they don't mind. I still do it, cause that way they will learn to stop it, or even better counter it. That will improve my game also. The Dan grades take it easy on the lower grades, but you start to drop them a couple of times, they stop being so nice and even go for sacrifice throws. Thats when people take themselves to the ground as well to get the throw in on you, hence the name, just incase pople reading were wondering. Jujitsu makes more sence on the ground to me. Judo you try to choke, tap or pin your oponent, but it is generally more nice and pinning is the way. In Jujitsu there is no pinning, so most people go for the pain, but if you leave the choke obvious you are going for a snooze. Much of the locks we learn on our feet they do on the ground, and a few are just modified on what we do. My locks and holds (Chin Na) has came on leaps and bounds since going to Jujitsu, I even revisited my Chin Na book and understood everything that was going on. Even in a well 'ard style like Jujitsu I can follow my taiji principles. If I can comming across much resistance, either on the ground or on my feet, time to change. That's why I go to Jujitsu and Judo, to try it out against folk. And frankly wrestling with Judo players is going to improve my grappling game, its their world after all. I am looking out for something I can practise my sparring with, but I already am at some class Tuesday through to Friday night and Saturday mornings, so trying to slot something like Muay Tai in isn't the easiest thing to do. I am soft when I require to be soft and hard when I require to be hard (when I think I require it anyway!), but to me hardness in Taiji isn't force against force. You say intelligent force, talking about Jing. I prefer to call it educated force, but it is all the same thing. To me intelligent or educated force isn't ramming them until they give up, it's remaining slow, following their movements and hitting the ******* where it hurts. Very much comes down to a frame of mind to me, your Yi is on softness or hardness. If someone punches me I can use softness in terms of deflecting, but afterwards I may want to **** the ******* in the face, which I would say is being hard.
It's a matter of style, as much as anything. It's so much more fun to switch from Harai-goshi to hooking their leg and sweeping them backwards when they try and pull away. I don't think I'm every going to stop enjoying making people throw themselves. Yeh, I go to judo, to learn judo not to teach people how not to get dragged around. In fact i've ended up focusing the sacrifice throws and groundwork, things missing from my tai chi. I didn't get the point of pins for quite a while, but I've found them excelent for holding down drunk mates without hurting them. If you look at MMA matches you'll see a lot of punishment dished out from dominate top positions. The emphasis on pinning (unsurprisingly) helps build the skills to hold them down and to escape from being pinned down. Good attitude. There's no sparring your in tai chi? That's a shame. I think force against force is necissary sometimes , to draw the other person out. If someone doesn't offer any resistance against me I will try to drive them into a bad position without over committing my force. If someone meets my force I don't always have that option. Equally if someone is trying to use force from a weak postion, I will happily meet it head on and go streight through it.
Sure is, in fact one of the guys is training to go back into full contact. I want to spar other people though, people who don't fight like a Tai Chi player. Especially test my skills against kicks and such, hence kickboxers. Frankly I want to test it against everything really. Sure, especially at the moment I would get a kicking, but I am a nutter in the way that I enjoy getting a kicking and battered about. Personally I think it is a good way to improve my Tai Chi Chuan. Getting out of my comfort zone and into a situation that is foreign to me, it makes me really think of my Taiji. Every class I walk into I think and act like a Taiji player. If something contradicts this I either try to modify, and if I fail at that I decide to concentrate on other moves. Not saying as my experience and understanding builds I won't find a way to adapt it. I do Judo. I do Jutitsu. I used to do Karate. I am a Taiji player though. It's what I do everyday, infact I just finished my Nei Gung and I am listening to the Classics that I have on CD. I suppose I just ****in' love Tai Chi Chuan.
Good thread! This is important as I know that some smaller guys and girls believe that they can't be martial artists because of their size. This is a shame as I find it harder fighting a smaller person than a bigger person! In wing chun, we tend to divert opponents energies in one direction before striking. The key to any fight is don't struggle or resist that person. If someone grabs you, relax and make it hard for them to move you around. I'm afraid I will have to quote Bruce Lee here in the 'Be like water' context. It's actually amazing how tension plays a big part in fights. The more you tense up, the easier it is for a stronger opponent to pull/push you around. Try this: If someone pulls you, collapse in with the same amount of force. If someone pushes you, move back with the same amount of force. This allows you room to strike or to crowd your opponent
In Tai Chi Chuan we have a text called The Tai Chi Classics (In fact five texts that make a whole), and it says: Suddenly Conceal, suddenly reveal, When the left feels heavy then make the left void, When the righ feels heavy then make the right distant, When the opponent looks up, I am still higher, When he looks down, I am lower still. When he advances, the distance seems surpassingly long, When he retreats, the distance seems surpassingly short. What you are saying seems similar to these teachings, don't resist his force, move with it. If he is pulling you back, move forward (if you don't like him move through with a shoulder or elbow strike), if he tries to move away follow him (perhaps trying a sweep or a takedown). Teaching self defence to a woman or someone without much physical stength is different to teaching your average guy or big bugger. I would never tell a woman in a situation to go toe to toe with a guy attacking them, trying to punch and kick their way out of the situation. Not every technique works for everybody on everybody, you learn to pick the techniques and ideas you are good at, especially when it comes down to a scrap.
I know how you feel in some respect as I used to do Mauy Thai Kickboxing before my heart operation and I had to give the lot up until I started tai chi and I feel very fustrated with having to try and be soft when all I'm wanting to do is get in there. I really miss kickboxing and go back if I could but in reality I know it's too dangerous for me and I've got to try and get it out of my system. There was nothing better than going in for a full contact sparring match knowing that you can let go fully (if you know what I mean lol) I didn't have to worry about holding back as much as when you have to train softer which is really hard to do. I don't have any answers from where to go from here but I'm really trying to give up on the dream to go back into full contact again. If only people would realise how much I used to train hard and get everything out of kickboxing and then have to give it up to start in the softer side, it really knocks at your confidence. I do enjoy tai chi and even had a good time last night (even though I was a bit naughty but that's me lol), I am giving tai chi a go and don't intend to give up as it's really helping me where I need it (just don't tell the teacher lol) . I am finding it a bit hard going trying to learn the form in a way which is to my standards and I'm not doing very well at the moment lol. I do swear a fair bit under my breath when I get a position wrong or a foot out of place, just keep the swear box out of reach as you'll make a bomb out of me . The teacher keeps on at letting go but it's easier said than done in my case lol, how do you let go in a softer martial art when all you knew is the external and you only see the guys a few times until I move down there, if anyone has any ideas then put in on here and I'll have a go, promise lol. lisa xx :Angel:
Sadly the only way through to the softer side of martial arts is practise i spent over 20 years doing external arts and its not easy always to relax. Chances are you might not relax as much as your teacher wants. But most of my teachers have also done external arts and though they might not use it much its still there for them to use every now and then. So do dont think of your MT as a hindrance but an extra bit to your martial art which you can use to confuse. Also Tai Chi is not always soft its just softer than the opponent.
Have you thought of training up to compete? You're young and dumb, enjoy being beaten, and you train at a full contact club that produces fighters. Sounds like a good recipe for a san shou fighter. LOL! What is the CD like anyway? It's something I've never been that tempted to buy somehow.
Thinking of it big time. I like it. It has English, French and Chinese translations on it. I usually whack it on when doing Nei Gung. He brought it out as that's how they used to practise, chant the classics like a Mantra whilst doing the gung - something to take your mind off it I suppose!! I don't chant, just swear!
I do see what your saying but it's hard to put into practice isn't it lol. I do battle to relax anyway without training and I'm really not sure how too lol, I know it seems crazy but it just seems impossible in reality lol. I admit the external side to it kept me going at a level which I could handle as I didn't have to give in, I could carry on without having the time to relax, I guess some people are just made like this (just hope Taiji Butterfly doesn't see this lol). They can carry on with a high level of stress and at the first time they get to relax they can't cope with it lol. This is why I think I'm having problems with the form to be honest as I've got used to being at a certain level and I don't know how to turn it off lol. With the External Matial Arts I don't see it as a hinderance, it's just something which I need to stop looking at as it's stopping me going forward in taiji as I keep reverting back to some of the moves and go too far as it should be a lot softer than I'm doing it. There's just no helping some people but I'm not giving up just yet lol. lisa xx
It took me 3 to 4 years to get my head around Tai Chi and even now i would never call myself a Tai Chi purist but i have it at a point where it works for me and with some more practise it might get softer yet.
How the heck did you get the patience for this one lol, I'm more into the instant type of learning lol, It's a lot easier lol. This is why I was able to learn the kata's so easy in karate lol, I've heard it say that it takes years to perfect the form and learn to relax. What would be the best way to do this in an instant, and I'm not joking here. lisa xx
Do a marathon session of training till you are knackered then do some pushing hands. You should be so tired you have not got the energy to use force. Some of my best Tai Chi comes at the end of a hard long session. As for the patience i was just stubborn. but also in those 3 or 4 years i did pack it up and go back again a good few times.
Oh eck, Don't give Taiji Butterfly any ideas, he's sadistic enough to do it to me lol, I would like it though, but don't tell him lol. Lisa xx
Leeesa, Following on from moononthewater's post. Maybe it would help if you did some stuff with the canon men first, to tire yourself out. (That would be from you chasing them as they run away screaming....much like you and Tej that time) *laughs* Seriously though Lisa. I am, by nature, someone with a short attention span and want things now. However, through my years of taiji training, I have changed in lots of ways through no concious effort on my part. The more I study and practice, the more I let go of unimportant things, including the need for quick fixes. I realised quite soon after starting taiji that it was going to be something I would be doing for the rest of my life because there is so much to learn. I still have a long way to go on my journey of yielding and letting go but I know that I have to continue if I want my taiji to grow. For me it has been incredibly difficult, although it is getting easier as time goes on. You have, imo, taken the first and biggest step by admitting to yourself that this is what you need to do. Now just do it!. You have us around you for help, advice, cajoling and general bullying! Welcome to the addictive, enlightening, aggravating, mindblowing..etc.etc. world of IMA!! See you tomorrow. Yield, let go and enjoy. :Angel:
We do the Pushing Hands thing while nackered quite a bit and it is quite funny You end up on your **** a lot as when someone directs you down, you can't quite root and absorb/deflect it quite so well and your legs just give in on you
