Hello, seeking old Master

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Saccade, Apr 24, 2016.

  1. Saccade

    Saccade Valued Member


    My name is Peter Austin and have practised martial art since I was around 17-18 years old. I am now 35.

    I started with (and ended up teaching a little) kickboxing and have practised TKD with various instructors, Wol Ge Kwan Hapkido, under Saboumnim Parlour and Grandmaster Chang, Aikido under Sensei Jay Savery and various "Kempo" styles that were, essentially, boxercise and circuit training.

    In the early '00s I trained in a style that used to be iTKD, but later became "Seloundo" under Master AJ Marie - this site is the only reference I can find to it on the internet.

    I cannot find reference to him or the style online, other than various closed institutions and sports/ community centres that have now closed.

    No martial art I have practised since has been the same and, well, I miss the toughness and drill and teaching style of Master Marie.
    I believe I was a good student and trained hard every day.

    After moving to London, miles away from the dojang, it became harder and harder to attend my training.
    I joined a local Karate group (by coincidence, I met two members of a different club under the same banner in the middle of a 1000km trek around the South West Coast of England), and even trained for a short while at Xaolin temple UK in London, as well as studied fencing and boxing.

    Regardless of my mixed history, I, regrettably, left Master Marie on very bad terms.

    I would like to locate some way to contact Master Antonio Jacques Marie so that I may apologise for myself and my behaviour this time a decade ago.

    It weighs heavily on me every day.
    I have tried google, facebook, twitter, electoral role, instagram, etc...

    Has anyone on this forum heard of Seloundo or can help me locate an address or number to contact Master Marie, so that I might send him a letter?

    Thank you in advance.

    Peter Austin
  2. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Welcome to MAP.

    Good luck in your search.
  3. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

  4. Saccade

    Saccade Valued Member


    I was one of the guys in those threads, bouncing between.

    I guess you are right, Van Zandt - it was over a decade ago.

    The reason we fell out, initially, was because I dug a trench to stop the dojang flooding and was unable to return the next day to fill it in with hardcore for drainage.
    The next day, it was refilled.

    Rest is history.

    Still no solid leads. I guess that's that.
    Just wanted to make ammends, is all - sometimes it takes a while before people cool off...

    Thanks anyway:)
  5. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    What are you currently training in?
  6. Saccade

    Saccade Valued Member

    Currently, where I am, there's slim pickings...

    So other than trying to get a kickboxing class off the ground, in which no-one is interested outside of being drunk at the pub... (the local TKD school is non-contact and kinda sport TKD from a book - that or some kinda kung-fu or tai chi, which I've never found to get along with - lots of yoga and pilates and stuff...), there's the local amateur boxing club - but they don't let you knee or elbow in a clinch or kick the other person...

    For everything else, the best I've found - It's a small class, mostly younger people (a lot of black belts) under the BMMA schools franchise.

    For now, it's fine - It's nice to run to the school hall it's held in and get to kick pads and stuff. Some really awkward techniques, not really any grappling or takedowns that I've seen (esp. not in sparring) and there's a whole bunch of protective gear to wear - kinda like some body armour, rather than some grapple gloves. Not quite sure how the conditioning works. Guess it's not necessary...

    Don't think it's for training fighters outside of a ring, but it's still fun and - despite some of the circuit / drill being a little old-school (eg, sit-ups so the muscles can rest between rep by shoulders to floor / chamber fist to hip before counter - always with guard up, no baiting or taming and stuff...).

    Idk, it's a small place and they have their way.

    No idea what the style would be called. It's kinda a mix of some sport kickboxing (gotta stay regular, not allowed to switch southpaw - like being back at school and being told to write with right hand instead of left...), boxing and some awkward TKD thrown in. Lead leg only, mostly. Side-piercing isn't loaded, it's like a half-teep, half-roundhouse.
    They call turning kicks "spin" kicks, rather than reverse turning kicks. As in reverse turn, backwards - not like a spin forwards as in a tornado kick, eg.

    Can see some elements of Muay Thai and TKD in the lead leg kicks, but the guard is really tight and ripe for splitting with a corkscrew/shovel uppercut - not really any jumping or deception that I've seen so far.

    Mostly combo or some real quick technique practise. 1,2,3,4,5,6,etc...
    The classes around here last only 45 minutes... Except the boxing club which can go for 2 hours.

    Was expecting British Military Martial Art to be something different, but I guess it depends on the teacher a lot. After a decade of getting used to teaching kids and juniors to black-belt, not seeing them again after they head off to uni or whatever, perhaps it changes things.

    It's fun, though, and it's the only place for miles (I think Hereford is the nearest place to do "old-school" full contact training) that offers the 45 minutes to a decent standard.
    There's some laughs and - even though I'm sweating more from the run to and from training than from the training - I would recommend the place to anyone who wanted to receive martial art training.

    It's quite informal, but there is discipline and it's obvious the instructor/teacher commands some respect from the students and they respect each other.
    It's a mixed class, so there are women - this hasn't really turned out to be a problem. I've been picked up a few times for kicking to the knee instead of going for points using a jab or something.

    I believe it's more sports orientated.
    There's nothing like milling or getting beasted - but saying that... if someone (esp. the higher grades) isn't paying attention, everyone "pays" by performing a few exercises before carrying on with super-fast drill.

    They really like kicking above the waist, but not allowed to takedown or sweep or blitz/grapple.
    Just kinda lacks some aggression...
    Now that I've said that, I'm probably gonna get lamped after xmas:)

    Idk. Off to the States to do some firearms training and call in at a few of the camps there in Jan.

    Still haven't found a "home" like there was before at ajima or kaobon or wol ge kwan.

    This place is good though - I like the instructor.
    They allow me a bit of leeway and are a little forgiving... It's difficult to make a body and mind forget what it's learned to be instinctual.

    Nowhere else round here has done that.

    It definitely is more proof for the trend away from martial art as I knew it, towards martial art as a sports oriented thing, in this country, though, I think.

    45 minutes is barely enough time to get limber. Limited set of what I would say are the kinds of exercises that end up with some injury - there are a few there who claim to have bad knees after only a few years.
    There's not much sports science involved - it's mostly pushing fitness and pushing gradings.

    But it's fun and I like the instructor and I get to punch and kick stuff - it's the best around... even if I can't elbow, knee, grapple, lock, project, trip, sweep, shoot, slam, etc...

    It's difficult to suppress instinct.
    Someone guessed at some kinda karate from the way I would move in drill, but couldn't figure it out from the rest.
    Had to 'fess up and let them know about experience in the end.

    Not being allowed to switch stances from goofy to southpaw and being stuck in an awkward mode is strange.

    All-in-all, though - I'm happy with it, augmented with some other classes.
    Don't care about gradings or chasing belts any more. Just enjoy it all.

    Not paid a penny... idk when they're gonna ask for money. Not paid for a single lesson in this town. Don't even wear a uniform any more... Just a pair of dogi trousers that are a bit ragged, grass and blood stained and a tshirt. Miss the sound of the sleeves on a good punch though. That rip.

    I'm nearly 40 (was 37 a few weeks ago)... Been going since around 18 years old. Still learning. Still struggling with new things.

    Every new class around the country / world teaches something new (even stuff like fencing), but I think I was spoiled by my introduction to martial art and it set a high standard.

    "You're not as good as you think you are".

    That's what I hear every time. So I push hard.

    It's good to find places that allow that and also shout at you to push harder.

    Everyone needs a bit of encouragement, every now and then ;)

    Still a bit leery of mixed classes and schools that hand out black belts to kids that aren't "junior" and have to retest as adults.
    Apparently, the 1st degree test here is over a few days and is mostly fitness based, some sparring against multiple opponents, perhaps having to step into the ring, demonstrating technique and / or some pattern (karate/tkd base, it appears) and beating some personal goal.

    It's a bit like entry to the FFL, except it's all in English.

    The place has some ki... First place in a long time that I've felt that. It's like a comfort zone.

    I'm sure the influx in the new year will step it up a notch for a while.
    Just a shame that it's only 45 mins and so rushed. I think the core group spent longer on their Christmas video than they did training the other day:)

    Still - it's what you get for moving to the middle of no-where for r&r...

    It's a decent school. Just wish the sessions were an hour longer or so, you know..?

    BMMA - not what I expected - not a bad thing.

    Mostly, I've been training on a Friday or Saturday night around 11pm with random pub guy in a bad mood who suddenly wants to be best friends and then never talks to me again...
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2017
  7. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Is that Kaobon in liverpool?
  8. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    what is your geographical location ?
  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    From. What I understand BMMA is a weird franchise that targets people coming out of the forces to buy into their system, so that alone makes me dubious of their business stratagy, never mind their constant alluding to MMA all over their websites.
  10. Saccade

    Saccade Valued Member

    Liverpool and London, yes.

    I'm currently in England.

    Idk, dead_pool - don't knock it til you've tried it.
    Appears mostly aimed at kids and youngsters which, in my opinion, isn't a bad thing.

    I'd say it depends on location and instructor.

    It's impossible to judge anything by a few videos and some stuff off the internet - don't knock it til you've tried it for at least 6-12 months, I reckon (unless it's a girlfriend who turns bunny boiler as soon as it's "official").
    I thought deadpool looked pants until a few people said it made them spit out laughing and they couldn't believe I hadn't seen it as it was right up my street, and saw it for myself.

    Who cares about business strategy?

    It's about martial art.
    That's a lifestyle, not a business.

    It's nothing like the armed forces.

    What I've seen are people engaging in physical activity that involves some kind of martial art based training, instructors might give some gyp (but it's good-natured), and a whole bunch of kids and adults being respectful of each other and having fun.
    axelb and Knee Rider like this.
  11. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Kaobon is a great gym. I've met a few guys who train there. I'd love to give the luta a go too.

    I was wondering as I'm in a similar situation to you, having moved away from the city and a high level MMA gym to a rural area.

    Where I am now, I wasn't expecting much, but was really pleasantly surprised. There are a few things there that would have been 'red flags' to me but I gave it a go anyway and I'm glad I did. It's far more commercial and the level and type of student varies widely but the coaching is very good and training is demanding with enough flexibility in sparring for those that like to either go harder or train under a more permissive ruleset such as K1 or even full MMA sparring.

    It is an adjustment but I'm actually really happy where I am and it's certainly helping my striking to train there. So it's all good.

    Also you mentioned that you felt some training environments you'd been in were leaning more toward the 'sport' rather than the 'martial' element which I found curious as Kaobon is about as sport as it gets being an MMA facility; unless you meant sport as in semi contact point sparring etc rather than something a little more gritty like Thai sparring and grappling etc?
  12. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    There's an old judo concept of a machi dojo, it's a community ran place, where old champions etc train the community, and get the next generation involved, kinds like a grass roots project, lots of small rural MA clubs fill that need, inclusiveness is good.

    Re buisness practises, full time gyms are a buisness, just because MA is generally good for you, doesn't mean their arnt shady buisness practises around, it doesn't sound like your experience is one of those though.
    Knee Rider likes this.
  13. Saccade

    Saccade Valued Member

    It takes a while to get used to a rural area, I think, Knee Rider - but that's not to say that there aren't good instructors and teachers.

    It's more that it's a small room in a church hall or school or sports centre than a full time centre where you can train from 10am - 10pm if you want, taking a few hours' break for some workout in the gym that's part of it.

    By sports stuff, I mean the kind of thing where it's in a ring and there's points. By martial, I mean the kind of thing that involves the kind of technique that's not designed for anything but to tear a ligament or dislocate or cause immense pain, destruction and rendering opponents unable to respond. It's a good teacher, that kinda thing (nose is still kinda straight, only missing 4-5 teeth) - but I'm getting to the age where I feel the old injuries, cold or not:)

    Nerves have grown back from a knife cut - that's taken about 7-8 years to regain sensation in that area. Don't like hospitals. Joint and muscle/tendon/ligaments are the worst.

    As for BMMA, they've got some flash videos with the usual borderline acrobatics flash kicks and stuff. No way i'd try that when started on by some fella, but I might show off by trying it it in semi-contact. I've never been to the head centre or met the chief instructors of this organisation.

    I set up a free school for the youth in this town, just to show "how to look after yourself" and keep an open dialogue with some troublemakers... and had zero visitors, despite many people saying they'd show up. In the end, they gave the room over to ping-pong.
    A few pub "demos" in town and late at night when minding my own business (think 5-7, which is more in 1 year than in 10 elsewhere... wouldn't think such a "lovely" town would have these kinda people. Always when I'm wearing a cardigan), plus my neighbours accepting the guy who goes out back to do some weird dancing and bashing stuff... I guess it's cos I wouldn't want to teach mixed classes all the time and only more committed students and no kids.

    Remember being down South some while ago and there was a club like you describe. It was judo, too - I think the guy was an ex olympiad or some UK champ or something and was teaching after retiring from competition.

    Kids is definitely where the money to at least break even for insurance and equip and space hire for martial art instruction/teaching lies. Women's only classes seem to do well also - although this is more like self-defense confidence or boxercise or whatever.

    Have noticed that I've lost a lot of weight due to not training as much, though - it's like the muscle's not needed, so why have it? Kinda a shame but it's only physical.

    Happy xmas and new years, guys.
  14. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    were in the uk?
  15. Saccade

    Saccade Valued Member

    It's a small town called, "nunyabusnis".
  16. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    If it helps, BMMA is mostly centred in the West Midlands, kaobon now also has a full time gym located in cannock.

    (link deleted)
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2017
  17. Saccade

    Saccade Valued Member

    (Phone # deleted)

    Plus, for the person who has too much time on their hands to be spending on the internet (it takes three google searches for me to find myself) - here's you:

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2017
  18. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Why are you posting a KF gym in London's phone number?
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2017
  19. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Mod note: A couple of posts here have had some information deleted. There are questions of privacy with regards to them and I thought it best to err on the side of caution while the mod team sorts it out. It is a time of holidays and vacations, so that is taking longer than usual.

    In the meantime, lets just not continue along those lines- again to err on the side of caution.

    And let's remember to be polite when posting. One post here seems bordering on getting personal.

    Dead_pool likes this.
  20. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I presume it was Tom's school, as a way to chide him for asking Peter where he lives.

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