sorry in advance. wondering if any one has ever seen not so much a master (but that would be cool) but well trained student which in tai chi is a lot of years fight ? i know its silly but i worry sometimes after all tai chi chuan is a fighting art after all. so basically has anyone ever seen a tai chi fight again sorry for such a silly question but it was bugging me as i know tai chi when learned properly is an effective fighting art in theory, i hope, maybe ,
I've never seen two tai chi practioners get into a real honest-to-god fight, but our sifu has shown us applications of techniques in sparring, and they are damn effective. Any technique you try on him is seamlessly blended into an attack on you-- your own energy is completely subverted, and you generally end up on your ****.
I agree - when my instructor is demonstrating techniques it's pretty scary. It's not about going into the carpark and having fisticuffs. Tai chi is a killing art - the applications were meant to be fatal or to cause permanent damage (most strikes are throat strikes or to major acupressure points) - that's why it's not at all suited to sparring or competition fighting. Most people who do tai chi learn a respect for the art that means they won't fight in most circumstances. I would walk away from most fights, not because I have doubt about my ability, it's because (like I said in a previous post) if it's not worth taking the guys eyes out and crushing his carotid, then you shouldn't be fighting. Yes, it may mean a 'loss of face', but a drunk a..hole in a bar doesn't deserve his arm broken in three places. That's why I think conflict resolution skills are so important - to have the verbal skills and self-respect to control a situation to stop it getting violent. I don't train to "fight well" when I get into a fight, I train for the health benefits, and also to know I would never try to get into a fight. But then if someone threatened my life or my family, I would destroy them before they had a chance to respond. Either nothing, or overkill. I know that's not what you were asking but that's the way it is. There's actually an old fight floating round the internet of a wu style fighter against a white crane specialist (the tai chi guy won), but it's difficult to track down (let me know if you do!!). Also, check out Jet Li's Tai Chi Master movie, it's pretty good.
I want to second everything NZ has said and also add; Where can I get a copy of Tai Chi Master locally? *L* I have been wanting to see that dang film for years!
Actually there was a cable special a while ago that featured a short bit on an up and coming fighter in the California martial arts competition circuit that was a Tai Chi man. They did have some fight footage in it. I'll see if I still have a copy of the tape. Also, having just come back from a seminar with an interal instructor (who works in all three arts), I can vouch from the bruises on my body that there's a lot of power in those systems (and this was mainly external damage... I'd hate to think about the potential internal damage possible). - Matt
Nice to hear from you Matt, I'd be very interested to see footage of any Taiji fighter you might be able to muster. Best, Syd
Wasn't there a UFC fighter a while ago who said he was an internal fighter who knew the secret art of Dim Mak...? That was until someone jumped him at a press conference and kicked his a.. That shut him up.
There are a few sites showing Tai Chi practitioners sparring and I have seen footage of Dan Docherty (Practical Tai Chi Chuan) fighting in a full contact heavy weight bout in the Far East in the 1980's using Tai Chi against hard styles with great success. Check out www.shadowhand.co.uk to see practitioners from this style (Also the style I practise) sparring on downloadable material. Thing is that any style when used in a real situation (even sparring at times) often does not bear any resemblence to that style and to the onlooker it seems that there is two people(or more) having a fight. The difference is that the practitioner of the style should be using the theory and concepts of the art to win out or at least subdue the situation. One will nearly always find it difficult to say' The fight was won because they used single whip' or any other known technique. Using evasive footwork,not being double weighted and staying as relaxed as possible will undoubtedly help rather than having to think about using a given technique. Techniques and applications are still an essential part of the art to practice as they train the body and mind to adapt to oncoming force and it is through this training that one would 'do something' at the appropriate time. Rgds, Wutan.
Hi Wutan, Seeing the shaowhand website reminded of my tai chi experience. I attended a class not related to Dan Docherty except through lineage. The class or club is not related to shadowhand. The club shall remain nameless. This was my first experience tai chi. I had learnt all the wudang forms (including nine palace steps) upto yellow belt. I left before taking my grading at yellow because they raised the fee of grading (from 10 pounds to 20) and now made membership of the club (about 30 pounds) and of the association (about 50 pounds) compulsory. I found club to be more interested in my money than my progress. I remember feeling sorry for my instructor cos most of the money from the students went to the head of the club, and wondering how much money the instructor had spent on his tuition. He was nobely dedicated to his art, though. Again, just to clarify I am in no way am I insinuating, inferring, implying or expressing a an association between shadowhands and the above.
Hi Zun, I'm sorry to hear of your experience. I train in Scotland and I have been taught by my instructor who was taught by his sifu who learned directly from Chen Ting Hung in Hong Kong so I do not attend any of the Shadowhand classes but do communicate on a forum with members and others from various Wudang clubs. I can't understand why an instructor would bring a belt grading system into Tai Chi when traditionally there were no belts with everyone being part of the family with some further down the road than others. Obviously there will always be instructors of varying skill levels and experience. I have viewed a website of an instructor affiliated to the wudang clubs who has introduced a wide ranging syllabus for Tai Chi with options of doing the health thing and/ or venturing into the martial side along with a grading system and if it is the same guy that you went to then yes he is very committed to his art. My instructor although full time and very committed to his art does not charge much for his classes and could easily command a lot more but chooses to stay true to the tradition. He has practised Tai Chi for 26 yrs and been teaching for 20 yrs. I hope that you are happier with your existing club and sometimes we have to shop around in life to find the right things for us. Regards, Mark.
Hi Mark, Thanks for the information and the heads up. I assume the instructor originally had hoped by codifying the system to make it easier to teach. Unfortunately I think the motivating factor is very different now . Live and learn I'm very happy I attended the classes, because I now realise how good the current teacher is. I'm very happy to hear that your sifu stays true to tradition and you are very happy with your classes. Hoping you continue getting the best out of tai chi. Zun
