Apologies - I should maybe have posted this thread here... When someone says they practice a Martial Art, do you automatically assume it's an Eastern based system, such as Tae-Kwon-Do, Gung-Fu or Karate? Just because, being English, I have made it my own personal mission to try to revive English Martial Art. After all, it did conquer three quarters of the globe (including the oceans and seas) in the past century... Does Fencing / Epee count as a Martial Art? I practice it and, because of the advantages of being pretty flexible (which is great for a long, low lunge) and quick due to Eastern Martial Art introduction and practice, have found that many of the actions and drills are augmented by Eastern Martial Art and it has similarities to armed and unarmed techniques from other Martial Art. How about non-Queen Of Marquis Boxing? English Sword styles and methods of wrestling / CQC? Quarter-staff and Short-Stick? Bow? They're all pretty devastating when used effectively, after having been practiced correctly (as are all techniques, whatever your preferred style) - especially the unarmed combat techniques, designed to be used when in a suit of plate-mail, when out of armour. I think it's a great shame that there are not many "Maisters" or "Maestro's" left to pass on Traditional English (and Western) Martial art. Is anyone else interested in their country's indigenous Martial Art, or is it just me?
Nothing wrong with being interested in one's own countery's indigenous martial art. Except for me, Australians dont really have an original martial art (Except Zendokai, which is offshoot of the Eastern MA), and my home country, Vietnam, has a martial art called Vo vi nam which has no combative applications whatsoever.
Evening, Knight of Nii, Have you not seen the Aboriginal Spear Throwers crafted from hard-wood? They're pretty effective - spears and javelins, pikes and halberds: all there in both East and West (The Chinese had a pretty nasty Halberd at 70 degrees - a good angle for slicing limbs off...) Any Nomadic or Hunter/Gatherer type tribe will have it's own Martial Art. Even if it is only related to survival. ie Hunting. Which, I believe, the Aboriginal peoples of Australia did quite well until they were introduced to porn and alcohol... And I've heard and seen a little of the Vietnamese style, though with a slightly different name - I guess there're lots of schools. What I saw was similar to Kali Silat in the use of a knife and stick, big knife and round shield (as Indian/Hindu styles) and unarmed strikes and, mostly, hip based pivots as takedowns. It'd be great if you'd write a bit more about it so I can research it more thoroughly.
One last thought on Oz (apart from the Defractional Reserve System exponentially crashing, as it is right now - check the FTSE - which was predicted and warned against in the Wizard of Oz) is that is was a Colony of, mostly, Irish and English. Ned Kelly used ambush tactics and knowledge of the land to evade and suprise to eliminate his pursuers. He always reminds me of Charles Bronson... Did something minor and then turned it into something major when confronted and made resentful... Hmm - Kinda like another person I know too.. Anyway - In that case, I suppose you could say that Australian Indigenous Martial Art would be, primarily Aboriginal, British and Irish-based.
You can't go far wrong by giving Chris Crudelli's new book "The Way Of The Warrior" a squizz. Under UK MA's there is such things as Jousting...surprised me for a while until I cottoned on. :evil:
Hi A guy who trains with me learns English sword, staff and is current UK Shin Kicking champion! There's a lot of goodd stuff there cheers Rob
To be fair it was "only" one quarter of the globe that we conquered, and I don't think you can really put that down to superior martial skill. It would have had more to do with the Royal Navy and superior technology. But I'm nit picking. I would love to do historical fencing but I'm not aware of anywhere near me that does it.
You're forgetting the seas... They span 3/4 of the globe and the Navy - the fiercest and best Navy of it's time owned the seas under the British Empire. Martial = Military... (among other things... Martial Law, for example.) ie Navy, superior weaponry, etc...
This is false. British military conquest had virtually nothing to do with personal combat skills w/r to swordplay, quater staff, boxing etc. The British were able to conquer much of the land they did in the 1600's onwards due to technological superiority and manipulation of native politics the nations they where occupying. Even when combat was up close and personal the British and much of Europe for that matter where absolutely crushed by the Romans. The British Isles where dominated by the vikings and the Normans. Even in those times military success had little to do with the European MA that you have in mind. It had much more to do with technology, strategy,tactics and just plain luck. The same goes for the Chinese, Japanese, Mongols, etc.
Mark Hatmaker has an extensive MMA curriculum formed from Western martial arts (Pugilism, Catch Wrestling, etc.). Take a look at www.extremeselfprotection.com
Oh right. So Europe was crushed by Romans? The British Isles were dominated by Vikings and Normans? First of all the Romans were europeans. Secondly the Normans and Vikings settled in Britain therefore in the 1800s when we had the empire we would have their genes and martial strength according to your warped logic. The fact you think martial skill is genetic and passed down through a race is already racist, there's no founding for this belief at all.
<Removed> Please point me to the section of my post where I had anything to say at all about genetics/race/ethnicity having any relevance the question. The Romans where Europeans....okay, what exactly is your point? The original question inquired about the European martial-arts playing a role in the military dominance of England during a specific time period. My response was that it had more to do with technology and politics than with any personal martial skill of it's soldiers during this period. The personal martial arts of any armed force had very little to do with the victories of respective armies due to the nature of large scale combat up until the 1800's. I bring up the Romans as excellent examples of this. I also bring up the Mongols as a great example of "barbarians" being able to topple nations that had a wealth of "martial knowledge". The Romans and Mongols won due to their strategy and technology....not because of some particular skill with the broadsword that their martial artists developed. That's the point you ninny...not someone being better at something because of their race or genetic background. Read the question again and then my answer before calling some one a racist personal attack removed.
Maybe you should be more careful with what you imply. Implying the Britain’s that formed the empire have no martial skill because the Normans and Vikings conquered them a thousand years ago is a pretty ridicules thing to say. It can be read as racist as you made sweeping generalisations about races martial abilities. Then in the same post you contradicted yourself by saying that when the Vikings and Normans conquered us it was due to advanced technology. You need to make up your mind if you're going to try and argue some stupid point. Also you need to learn the definition of the word martial. It's not exclusive to melee fighting. It refers to military prowess in all areas. The British conquered a third of the world largely due to their marshal ability. This included advanced tactics and weapons. Notice how I haven't called you an idiot at all in this post but I've still made you look like one. This is the best way to do it.
<some swearing> Imply ? Where in any of my post did I imply any of what you accused me of saying ? I think it is telling that you totally side stepped my earlier challenge to point where I said anything remotely racist. Where in any of what I posted did I state implicitly or explicitly that the Brits had no existing martial arts? My point is that they where conquered in spite of it. Make up my mind? About what? Can you point to where I mentioned the term 'Advanced'? You cant because I did'nt. Do you know what technology is? It is any tool created by man or creature that causes a task to be completed more efficiently than without. The technology that you have does not necessarily have to be more advanced than that of your opponents. A relatively small group of archers can have a devastating affect on an entire calvalry that is fully armored given the right circumstances. The British learned that lesson while fighting the Zulus. How many times do I have say it...strategy+politics+technology..... <more swearing and insults>
popasmuerf, you really need to watch the language and personal attacks or someone is going to be in trouble with the mods.
You are correct, However I would petition the mods for special exception in this case. This guy attacks me for something I never said and then calls me a racist...for something that was only written in his delusional mind. Ordinarily I would just ignore the normal silliness that passes for reasoned argument that is posted on forums..but I am in no mood to tolerate being called a Nazi/eugenicist or whatever vile thing he was equating me with. If I get banned then so be it.
I didn;t call you a nazi. getting a bit defensive aren't we. Thou protesteth too much sir. I'm not saying that you chain up minorities in your basement and torture them for fun and sexual fufilment. I'm saying you're a really nice guy.
You read a racist implication from his text, yet it's as much your fault as it is his. It's possible he didn't intend it to have such an implication, but when reading it you found it to be that way. honestly, it would serve both of you to just apologize and move on. as for western martial arts... it's interesting they're not as prominent as eastern ones, at least from the public perspective. Granted, boxing and wrestling (and MMA if you count that as a "style") are huge. As for native arts.... I know the native americans had some sort of fighting style/system, but that's pretty much wiped out now.
