For some time now me and a couple good friends have been leading a "fight club" (no, i never even saw the damn movie, pls dont bother bringing it up). After being thrown out of my school, my friends followed and we decided to train on our own, we saw this as the most practical and efficient solution. In the past several weeks, people have taken an interest in our training and lots have been joining us. We have developed a program, weight training, cardio etc., every friday night we have what we call "UFC night", lol. We go all out, UFC rules. People have taken a very strong liking to this. About 4 weeks ago this guy we all knew said he wanted to join us, he was tired of getting beat up and he wanted us to help him. We trained him hard, he took a beating but a couple days ago he was attacked and managed to knock his attacker flat on his ass and break his nose. We've been getting A LOT of attention lately, the local traditional MA schools are all bad mouthing us, my old school treats me like an out cast now, haha. Every friday night, we get crowds watching our fights. I'll admit that what we're doing is very very risky. A couple weeks ago, I had my fingers dislocated and the bone ripped through the skin. We've had concussions, bleedy noses, sprains, a couple breaks and a load of bruises. Now, I'm beggining to wonder...what we're doing, is it worth it? Without a doubt we are way better fighters now then before but is it worth the risk? I've seen proof that out program works but I'm starting to have second thoughts about the worth of it all. Some of my friends have become very violent since they joined us, they are getting into a lot of fights on the street and at school. I want to turn this program around a little, but I dont know where to start, I want to keep the essentials but I have to encourage discipine, and control. Its funny, these are the things I got thrown out for, now I'm trying to encourage them. (By the way, I want to put some of our taped fights on this site. Who can I talk to about that?)
Personally I'd probably avoid a club like that, but that's just my opinion. Talk to Ghostsuit about mpeg uploading, he could best answer those questions. Rob
I wouldn't go near a club like that, no offense, I just don't want risk in training than on the street. Seems a little pointless to risk broken bones, dislocations, etc in class as well.
Some people train in self defence (as you are) just to defend themselves in perhaps the one desperate situation, they hope will not happen in there life,. So to train in such a way as you have described seems very,very extreme. However, i know training in this way is very addictive, but once you start its very difficult to keep control, you're always taking it one step further(as you say, you now see the need for discipline and control 'cos it's getting out of hand/control). You say there have been concussions, do you mean KO'S if not this could soon happen and what happens when you can't revive him/her - you're in sh*t!!!! Also the injuries (breaks/dislocations) you're having now WILL come back to haunt you when you're older,(ask anyone over 40)
Ur trying to control something that can't B controled. U have borught people in who just want to fight, and kick the crap out of someone. clubs like this R stupid it gives stupid people the idea that fighting is ok, that if U dissagree with someone lets fight about it and C who's right. so then U have a wife she thiks this U think that and U kick her butt, U have kids he doesn't want to go to bed so U kick his but. this was a bad idea on your part. and i don't think MAP should let stash put his fights on the site. HKD
Ok, i founded this "club" and it hasnt changed me one bit. My gf, familly and all my friends know about this and they treat me the same as before. I've become a lot more confident and thanks to this I've been able to turn away from fights with ease. HKD, your assumption that this will make me a violent husband/father is really pretty offensive. People dont come here just to fight, its not like we pick people off the street and say: "hey you...you wanna fight?" This is about training in the most effective way possible. You can train on the bag and spar and whatnot as much as you want but the second you have a real fight on the street the adrenaline dump will stop you cold. I believe that the only way to stop this is through experience (I might be wrong, maybe there are other ways.) We've taught people to defend themselves this way, kids that used to get the crap beaten out of them can now fight back. We dont charge any money, we dont practice forms or anything, we dont have any fancy equipement, all we have is 2 pairs of gloves. People have thanked me for helping them, the only problem I have is with the guys that started this thing with me, I have to find a way to calm them down, they spend the whole week looking forward to friday night. I posted this up, because I'm hoping to find a way of introducing discipline into our program. If you guys could give me advice instead of insults, that would be great. I know a lot of you guys disagree with what I'm doing, thats fine, but please dont get the idea that we're just a bunch of shaved head street thugs beating the **** out of each other for no reason, thats not what we're about. I started this thing because its my solution, my path, my way of reaching the top, if i can help people along the way, then i dont see whats wrong with that.
Hi Stash More power to you bud - sounds like you're in for some good experiences and you're on the right path IMHO. Yes, what you're doing will seem extreme to some - but no more extreme in one direction than a lot of people I see poncing about in silk pj's are in the other direction (I'm not talking about anyone specifically here so no flames of death please people). Take a look at the following links if you haven't already done so. Also, ask these guys for advice - you'll find them very open with their knowledge and they will be able to steer you in a productive yet safety concious direction. www.straightblastgym.com www.straightblastgym.net http://pub88.ezboard.com/fstreettalk91724frm1 In particular keep your eyes on the "Step to Aliveness" thread on that last link - there's some good info there and more due very soon. What is your background in MA? What did you do before your recent changes?
Maybe not you Stash, but it was you that said some of your "students" are getting violent. Is there something wrong in the way you train that makes them violent? What training do you do in preparation for your Friday night fight night? It sounds like this is all you do, it may be a very good way to gain experience, but what chance will your students have against experienced fighters with good technique!? At only 17, learning could be more important than pressure testing what you know. Buts that only my opinion……
I don t disagree with your training but I do disagree with your mates fighting on the streets. But I wouldn't worry as it wont be long before someone takes a bat to their head or a knife to their back. And remember this could all lead back to your club. You say that people come and watch your friday night fights. I would say this is obviously a routine that someone with a grudge towards your mates could pick up on and use it as the basis of a revenge attack.
Hi folks, i can't add much to what's been said before except fair play to you for taking it to the extreme. Forgive me if this point has been answered before but are you insured? if not you could find yourself getting bitten seriously if somebody gets badly hurt. it may be something to look into. The other thing I'd say is know everyone you're training with and their motives. You don't want people learning to kick **** for the wrong reasons.
well i really wasn't tring to tick anyone off, it's hard to get Ur point across over typed messages sometimes. but the only way to get control of this it to B in control from the start it's hard to get it after it's lost. U'll have to have to B hard with them and if it comes to it throw some people out that R causing a problem. U may lose alot of people but if U really want to get stuff in check U have to let them go and draw in the type of people U want. good luck HKD
Ok, I'll tell you guys a bit about me. I'v been obsessed with MA since i was 6 years old. I started off in a very traditional Tae Kwon Do club, I stayed there for 11 years. During this time I also took up Judo for almost 3 years and I started to kickbox as well. After getting into a lot of trouble for beating the crap out of some in self defence I was forced to leave my school. After that I went to different seminars and studied techniques every single day (my marks went straight down hill, lol). Not too long ago I realized that the traditional approach really wasnt right for me, I realized what I wanted from MA. I made some wrong decisions in my life and I've put myself in a pretty bad environment, I've been beaten with bats, golf clubs, i've been slashed several times, stabbed with glass, i've had a gun pulled on me a few times, no one ever fired on me before, thank God. I train in MA to be able to defend myself because I know I will without a doubt have many more fights in the future. PGM316: "It sounds like this is all you do, it may be a very good way to gain experience, but what chance will your students have against experienced fighters with good technique!?" Learning to apply a technique effectively in a real situation where your opponent i fighting back is very very hard, the technique might not even be that hard to do, but the first time the adrenaline dump hits you bam! You forget everything and you freeze. Theres no way I can prove this to you, you have to experience it yourself. In my program we learn techniques as we go along, we learn from eachother and most importantly we learn to apply it. Two fighters fighting for the first time isnt anything spectacular, they are both scared stiff, they might throw some punches but they are way too scared to try anything advanced. They're second fight, they feel a little more confident, they start experimenting, trying new thing. YODA, the sites you gave me are excellent, its exactly what I needed. I was looking through SBG site, I like it. I would like to change my program into something like that. Straight Blast Gym Instructors/ Coaches guidelines: Aliveness All SBG Instructors must understand the principle of Aliveness, and maintain a curriculum that is always Alive. Dead patterns need to be left at the Gym door. Performance Integrity All SBG Instructors will maintain an 'open mat' environment and will roll/ spar with anyone who walks through their Gym doors, at anytime, and in front of their students. Freedom of Learning All SBG Instructors will maintain an 'open door' policy in regards all their students. Students of the SBG must be free to train anywhere and with anyone they like. SBG Instructors cannot ban students from attending other events or other schools. Athleticism All SBG Instructors will maintain a 'Gym' atmosphere, where athleticism conditioning, and combat athletics are emphasized. Athletes should be provided an Alive environment where they are free to problem solve. Ethical Business Practices All SBG Instructors will maintain a high degree of professionalism, and ethical business practices. Adaptability All SBG Instructors will teach a curriculum that includes stand up, clinch and ground. A curriculum that works in SPORT and SELF DEFENSE. And a curriculum that is applicable to every able body. Coaching All SBG Instructors should also act as coaches creating an environment where athletes can learn through first hand "experience". Attitude All SBG Instructors will maintain facilities where titles, ritual, and hierarchy are shunned. Performance and having fun are the only goals. Conditioning All SBG Instructors are expected to maintain a higher level of personal conditioning. This is PERFECT, YODA, I would like to talk to you sometime, maybe you could help me improve my program. I know people, especially traditionalists are gonna hate me and what I'm doing, but I dont care, I'm dedicated now.
hmmmmmmmmmm Got to be honest I think it sounds like you are heading for a big fall. The reasons the local clubs would be bad mouthing you is I agree through fear because you are teaching less "Tradition" and more **** kicking. The trouble is if you do have a serious injury then you are gonna make things worse. I train in Sombo and Sonshu and feel I train hard as the few occasions I have been attacked I kicked butt pretty darn well.....BUT...... what you are doing is going to increase violence in your fellow trainers and also it makes you out to sound a bit of a Pratt. Still each to there own. I like all the UFC and VT stuff and would like to enter but you need to have the proper rules there as I find as soon as people get really hurt at the hands of poor quality students, instructors etc it causes a really bad rep that is hard to shift and people don’t want to come back. Be careful or the numbers dwindle, I would say also that proper MMA fighters train and condition for a long time before fights (the sensible ones do anyway) your fighters I doubt have the time to do this, also how easy on new people do you take it? Lastly what about work you must all have the kind of jobs where appearance does not matter - if I cam to work with a shiner then there would be trouble as I do a lot of client facing things..... ..... If your interest is flagging now then most others will be feeling the same. – also I hope your insurance as in instructor is good as someone might be cashing in on the **** kicking they receive or the support going for a burton when someone is in court for scrapping – it happens! All that a side you can salvage it by putting discipline in and sticking to it! SONSHU
Sounds like you do know a lot Stash and its a good thing that you want to test yourself, you'll gain a lot of experience you can only get from doing that. I'm still not sure if its the right thing for the people without any previous training. You mentioned somebody got beat up and joined your club, and now it sounds like he's getting beat up more. What techniques has he learnt that he can put into practice. If its none, I can only imagine fighting for him is all about violence and aggression, which would lead to bad physiological side effects like you mentioned with them acting violently. What does the rest of your training consist of? I would only have a small part of it as such potentially dangerous training. Even then the student must have gained enough experience to be able to defend themselves adequately. I’ve done plenty of realistic training myself, always against well trained partners. I’ve had plenty of bust lips, cuts, bruises, sprains and 5 broken bones so far. I learnt a lot and I enjoyed it. I don’t train like that much now, relying more on safer training methods, still relatively realistic but with a better realism/safety balance. But then again whatever way I’ve trained I’ve found to be very different from any fight I’ve been in outside of the my club.
stash you should have trained martial arts to learn to control your self rather then to fight better. HKD
hmm stash i think it's good that u hav tasted blood n bruises and know wat is pain?... but the question remain is it worth it? well u urself pointed out some thing about ur friends fighting in streets... they may be beating up ppl but still there is a very big chance that they can get seriously hurt and can be danger to society....that would be no good sign if u produce a criminal mind? yup u hav to maintain a discepline in ur class(Club) anger/voilence can be controlled with proper meditation, u should start taking lessons in meditation...it would be good for u n others... i hav no probs with ppl who go "full contact" i like it too...but it should not be encourage violence...it's for ur practice n self defence... -TkdWarrior-
Yep, I stayed in a traditional TKD school for 11 years, under ths same instructor. He encouraged control and discipline like mad, I have no problem with that, what you seem not to understand is that the problem isnt me. Being under control/disciplined is one thing but teaching these things to others who dont see a need for it is quite difficult. We took this week off because of thanksgiving but next week i'm going to take steps to introducing these values, first of all i'm writing a list of rules similar to the SGB rules.
