Nope- you know everything I do, or you do if you've bothered to read the health and fitness section, you just choose to ignore it. P.S. Trolling is where you post something to incite conflict, not where you have a legitimate disagreement with somebody who's heard all your arguments against them in the past and consistently refuses to listen to them.
Hello all, I have enjoyed this thread. With regards to the development of muscle interfering with one's practice of Taijiquan, or any internal art, I believe that the key component is one's ability to relax the musculature. Developed musculature does not inhibit the flow of qi, tension within the muscles (or anywhere else) does. Taijiquan itself is a form of progressive resistance training. One begins the practice with very little "external" stress placed upon the practitioner. Once able to rid oneself of the internal stress (including excessive muscular tension), the practitioner then begins to add stress (slower movement, lower stances, pushing hands, weapons, faster movement, two-person sets, sparring...) in order to learn how to release all unnecessary tension under stressfull situations. You start where you are. If you are a bodybuilding champion, you have an equally good chance of learning taijiquan as the bookish aspirant. You will encounter different challenges to the practice, but perhaps I should have left that unsaid... Household chores, demands of the workplace or hobbies place a variety of stress upon the system. I believe that it is for each practitioner to bring their Taijiquan skills into those environments so that one has the chance to practice the art (a certain skill or skills) until they are natural. How to garden in a Taijiquan (more efficient?) way? It is only when Taijiquan is our "natural reaction" that it will be most useful to us, be it for health, for combat or for spiritual growth. Great thread!
Being a moderator I think you would have noticed that we are not in the health and fitness section. Perhaps if you know nothing about a particular MA, such as Tai Chi, and the physical and psychological aspects associated with it, maybe you should refrain from posting such self aggrandizing and ignorant comments.
Agreed, but I do apreciate the fervour. I'm not going to bother responding because it would be futile. Somewhere I can hear Maxwell Smart saying... "Ohhh! The old man and ragdoll trick!"
Syd & KE, I don’t know if you noticed but we are in a forum, correct me if I'm wrong, but a forum is used for discussions. It is difficult to have a discussion when someone disagrees with your point of view but gives no explanation why that is, nor states their own point of view.
Zilla, I've been attending forums long enough to know when a discussion reaches a point of futility. Two parties reach an impasse for one reason or another and at this stage I see either many hours of typing ahead of me where I could explain in thesis fashion what I have already stated; or the other option is to accept that there are those among our milieu who understand what I have said and those who don't. The only thing I'll bother to point out is that there are many different ways to train muscles and condition the body and it's not all from the body building bulking up angle either. I wholeheartedly disagree that weight training and Taiji or any IMA do not go together and are indeed detrimental, nonsense. I have very intense Qi sensation during standing and form work and weight training has in no way interfered with my flexibility, suppleness or softness. Thats all there is.
Syd, Thanks for a decent reply, I just wish that more people (KE) would take example from you and get straight to the point of how they feel, instead of mincing around. With regards to your comment I have a few questions for you. - How long have you been training and how much do you train? - Have you ever stopped weight training for prolonged periods of time, yet continued with Tai Chi? - When you say very intense Qi sensations, do you mean you just have the ability to feel Qi intensely or you have the ability to move Qi around your body with intensity? If you don’t want to answer any of these questions, feel free no to, I have no expectations. Cheers.
No problem, I'm not hostile about these things thats for sure. I'll do my best. If you mean weights? Probably on and off for 5 years or so. Yes indeed, certainly and I have done it the other way around as well. I have the ability to move it around a bit but I try not to focus on that sort of thing as intention tends to work against the process of cultivation. I let my Qi do what it wants to do for the most part. No worries.
Hey Syd, With regards to how long you have been training I was referring to Tai Chi or any other IMA if that be the case, I guess I should have really said that initially. You said that you have experience in training both Weights and Tai Chi, individually and separately for prolonged periods of time. Am I right to assume you did not find any variations in your Tai Chi practice with and without weight training?
Poor little zilliebillie, can't be bothered to read about sports science and then has the front to get stroppy when I pull him over for making self aggrandizing(sic.) and ignorant comments. Awwwww. My heart is breaking.....
LOL.. That’s right sonny , you'll understand when you grow up, get educated and develop some logical thinking skills.
Not that it makes any difference to the question and the way I feel about it, but about 5 years on and off. I have been engaged in Metaphysical and Esoteric studies for well on 15 years and IMA's were a logical manifestation of my long term interests. Yes I did find differences. When I am weight training I feel stronger internally. I feel my life force more vibrant. Since Qi is a reflection of the bodies natural state of health as much as anything else, I have found the two to be mutually beneficial. I am happier and healthier and more relaxed when I am fit and my training in Taijiquan and other arts benefit as a result. It's a well known fact that it does. I have found it from my own observations and It is well documented by those who would have the wisdom to testify to that fact also. My *other* IMA teacher teaches the very same thing as intention interferes with the breath and thus disturbs cultivation. It is also said to be detrimental to the internal organs. This may depend on what sort of a result you personally are seeking. My current teacher does not adhere to the above and infact teaches the precise opposite. I am apt to agree with him based on my own experiences during deep states that have come about as a result of non focus. One of the better known adages in Taiji is that Yi interferes with Qi. There are many schools and many teachers with different takes on what is right and not right. Thats one of the big reasons these discussions often become futile. Who is right? What is better? You are where you are ... I am where I am. Be happy.
That's funny, because I could swear you were the one claiming that lifting weights could interfere with doing tai chi and clinging pathetically to this 'chi' notion instead of bothering to find out what is really going on. By the way, your muscles DO atrophy if you don't train them- if you seriously want to stop weightlifting to do tai chi, you need to be including at least one weights workout a week to keep strength levels up. Also, doing tai chi does NOT make you more muscular- it's, at best, a cardiovascular activity. It isn't a strength workout by the longest stretch of the imagination.
Syd, When you say the Yi interfeers with Qi, are you refering to what is said in the classics, along the lines of 'if the Yi leads the Qi, it will be slugish or something, and that the Spirit should lead the Qi', or something along those lines.
Yes, something along those lines but it is more pronounced than sluggish. It becomes a matter of the Yi interfering with the Qi's natural development and flow through the various meridians. You achieve better results from non focus than focus, which allows the subconcious to interact with the Qi. I'm not going to get much further into this as it becomes largely academic and academically speaking we begin to discuss things that are very much personal or endemic to the kind of training and activity to which you personally adhere. Essentially I've said all I can say about it.
Zilla-- If you've learned anything here at MAP, it should be the three words below Knight Errant's name. No offense KE, but you know where this whole argument is going...
I started this thread, and I've been reading most of the posts. Seems to me that you need balance. A balanced exercise regime A balanced IMA regime A balanced weight training regime A balanced lifestyle Its when we go to silly extremes that we get trouble. This is true for virtually everything. Too much stress on the muscles and you get sprains, tears, etc. Not enough stress and you get atrophy. I'd pretty much come to the conclusion that as long as you were sensible you could pretty much do what you liked. It would be a sorry state of affairs if you were no longer able to do X if you were trying to study Y. If IMA is the only exercise you do; by which I mean that for the rest of the time you are a couch potato refusing to lift anything or walk anywhere etc. Then to my mind you are not in balance. This is taken from the standpoint that no-one is a full time martial artist. But if you lead an active life that does not include trips to the gym, or picking up heavy things for the sole purpose of putting them down again, you can still have a reasonable level of strength and fitness. When I started going to the gym a few years ago I was both slightly overweight, and totally unfit. After the first session I felt invigorated. It was knocking the cobwebs out of my system. I was more energised. It was only after a went beyond a certain point in my training that I felt I was going too far; too far for me anyway. As long as the exercise comes with adequate stretching out to maintain suppleness and relaxation, then there can be no problem to my mind. It is when people do not stretch out properly that they build up stiffnesses in their bodies. I started this post stating that we need balance. We need to find the balance of the argument as well. A lot of people have said a lot of good things. Some not quite so good have also come to light. Sometimes we need to hear a 'contentious' point of view to make us re-examine our own viewpoint. Sometimes that will lead us to modify our own view for the better. cheers
