Etmology and Correct Spelling of FMA Terms

P with F (flain rice, pried rice)
V with B (virtday, bayolet)
C with K (essentially the same sound so no problem here, mostly spelling considerations such as kapampangan/capampangan)
D with R (rito, dito!!! my personal frustration, when to use which)
E with I
O with U (E and I, O and U are interchanged depending on the region and language/dialect of the person speaking. For example, in pampanga, some words that O in tagalog are pronounced with a U sound in kapampangan/capampangan. Tagalog is pronounced taa-gaa-luhg over here)

this is because of Baybayin. The original glyph had only one character for each of the pairs mentioned above, which means they're interchangable... but "modern" filipino studies don't recognize that, "dapat ganito, dapat ganun" bah! All they had to to was return to the root of the languages and understand that the rules they made up are really just complications of a simple,yet colorful language...

Ah yes, flick... salamat Bruns!

 

walang anuman pare. (you're welcome/no problem bro)

-nico-

 

Another addition, does anyone know what an Olisi and a Baraw is? I heard [with much skepticism, i might add] that an Olisi is some translation [i don't know from what language/dialect] for "stick," and Baraw is from "knife." i find this kinda hard to take in since stick and knife, as we all know is already baston and daga... any input from the community?

 

bisaya

 

oh, those are visayan terms? i guess the saying's true, you do learn something new everyday.

-nico-

 

Those are the terms I learned. Olisi is a stick (and pangolisi is stickfighting). Baraw is a dagger. Stick and knife was usually referred to as espada y daga (even though 'espada' technically means 'sword'). But espada y daga is clearly a Spanish term for sword and dagger. Whereas olisi and baraw may be more indigenous terms.


Stuart

 

Indeginous is a debatable term. there is so much Spanish in Filipino and Visayan that it's so hard to distinguish. Espada y dagga works for me (I am, after all, from Luzon)

 

nope. i have to go with stuart here. olisi and baraw are indigenous terms (i.e. no spanish or external influences in the language). you asked what it means and what dialect. if we time warped back to pre-spanish philippines, no katutubo (indigenous people) would understand espada y daga (which are spanish). it would be more likely that they would understand baraw and maybe olisi (in the visayas).

 

But isn't that the beauty of language? It's dynamic and ever-changing. It reflects our culture as a people, how we are able to take foreign concepts, words, food, etc... and make them our own, like Adobo and pansit. There's nothing really wrong with taking a foreign term and making it ours, koya and atsi in capampangan directly comes from the chinese terms from brother and sister [co-a, i think, and at-chi]. Adobo is spanish and pansit is chinese. There are some tagalog and capampangan words that are found in the indonesian tongue. We used to have our on form of glyph, Baybayin [aka alibata] but the alphabet works better, that's why the baybayin was nearly eradicated. Linguists don't say that these should be stricken from the Filipino language just because they're from other countries. I don't see why espada y daga can't be filipino words just because they came from the spanish, when we use them everyday [well, sort off]. We already have mesa, kabayo and kamiseta, noone's saying we shouldn't use these words because they're not indigenous. Plus, we're not talking about what the ancient Filipinos [yes, i know they weren't collectively called Filipinos back then] used to call them, we're talking about our terms now. The stick up north is called baston, kutsilyo is the knife, but that's only from one major tongue. Until recently, i didn't know that olisi and baraw mean the same things in bisaya. That's another set of terms from another tongue. That's the kind of problem we have when we try to understand a martial art whose practitioners' languages are as diverse as the land itself. I hope this doesn't become an "arnis, kali or eskrima?" thread, because if it does, then all three could potentially be wrong because arnis de mano is [unless i'm mistaken] "harness of the hand," that's obviously not an indigenous name, and neither is eskrima [skirmish]. I won't even start with Kali, since, i've not read anything substantial regarding it's local origin. Heck, if I were drunk and had my way i'd probably call it Tagsakan "tagaan at saksakan." Bottom line, no matter what it's called, we know what it is and what it's not. So, baston, olisi, kutsilyo, daga, baraw, whatever... parepareho lang yan...

 

Absolutely that's the beauty of language. Look at English. Happens all the time.

Hell, eskrima and arnis are both Spanish terms as well. I certainly don't have a problem with it. I've heard various terms for the stick, including olisi, baston, and garrote. I don't really have a preference. For the most part, as I mentioned before, I use different terms depending on the specific exercise or situation.

So I might say "solo baston", "doble olisi", and "espada y daga" all in the same conversation, without giving it a lot of thought. Same with "baraw" and "daga." If it's combined with the stick, I tend to use "daga." Otherwise, it's "baraw." (Or, of course, just "knife.")


Stuart

 

Mabuhay to the Pinoys,
When do you use the "ng" ending on a word? Example: "dalawa yantok" or "dalawaNG yantok"? Can you give a basic rule of thumb? My asawa is a Pinay, but she says she can't explain it.

Also verb formation: some Tagalog uses "mag, tag, pag, etc" and some use this: uhlan=rain, umuhlan=raining.Which verbs use what structure? Thanks in advance

Maraming maraming salamat po!

 

shootodog is correct; it's bisaya. cebuano to be more specific. but then again, some people will automatically assume bisaya to be cebuano, although hiligaynon/ilonggo, waray, etc, are also bisaya. i'm just saying that coz i have ilonggo roots ...

 

hi serakmurid, i'm pinoy too, but i really never paid much attention in my filipino classes. i'll try and dig up my old elementary filipino grammar books and find an answer.

ulan=rain, tag-ulan=rainy season, umulan=past tense of raining (it rained), umuulan=it's raining.

some syllables repeated over and over may mean something also. an example would be "bababa." bababa basically means going down or getting off. "bababa pa ba?" means "do we still have to get off?"

-nico-

 

hmmm... i don't recall how the old text books said the -ng should work, i only learned tagalog from conversations [capampangan ku] I think -ng is added when the word is followed by a noun? Not sure... there may be exceptions.

The verb forms are even more complicated, because mag- nag- etc... are used differently in bisaya and tagalog... well, at least, from how my visayan friends conversed, they sounded like they were used differently.

 

consider the "ng" suffix as simillar to the "ing" (or gerunds) of english. any word with the "ng" as a suffix is considered to be an adjective. in the case of an adjective ending in "ng" (masangsang) a "na" or is added in between words, (masangsang na isda).

One big diference is that the object of your adjective can come before the adjective and the "ng" suffix will still be used (kalesang itim).

Indeed, the "ng" suffix is called a "lubricant sylable" because in pdgin Filipino one would use "na" (Dalawa na bahay) and this would make you sound like a kid or an idiot but it's easy to use because the rule is logical. But for beginners, I believe the "na" form is the one first taught.

The "ng" floating on its own is akin to the English "of" (pagkain ng aso), the "nang" on its own is used with verbs (pagsipa nang kabayo).

THis is just what I remember, so some of it mya be fuzzy. And don't get me started on tuldiks!

 

"mag" is the basic prefix for verbs with a lot of exceptions pertaining to the gitlapi or midfix, if you will.

the exceptions, I think, pertain to tense. "Ka ka in" comes from the root "Kain-to eat" doubling the first sylable makes it future tense. "K um ain" has the midfix of "um" indicating a past tense and past perfect. if you add the midfix and doubble the first sylable "K um a ka in" then you have the present tense and maybe the present perfect.

"Tag"-is a prefix before seasons (Tag-araw, Tag-hirap)
"Pag"-is the prefix used on verbs that can be compared to "to" or better yet, to indicate a method or way(pag-laba, pag-kanta)

Again, most of these are from memmory so if you can find better ways of atriculating what I just said then please just add on!

 

Does anyone know what the palis-palis move is? I know palis, it's capampangan for broom or sweep. How does that translate to arnis? I infer it's a kind of sweeping motion, but does anyone know how it's executed?

 

Thank you gentlemen for all your help. I appreciate the time you took to answer me. "Ng", of course, is very difficult for Westerners like me to pronounce correctly esp when it comes at the beginning of a word like "ngipin". Also the plural noun indicator "Mga". I promise I won't ask the meanings of "kita"
My asawa is from Davao City (I visited there some years ago). She tells me Bisayan is more difficult than Tagalog.
Salamat!
Guro Andy

 

not more difficult, just different.

 

i hope i can answer this right & clear. palis-palis is kinda "going w/ the motion", just deflecting the strike of your opponent.

hope its clear enough