I am saying that the one demonstrated by erle in the vid didn't cause instant death when struck. The Bear.
absolutely, the 100 odd times we tried, nobody following what was done in the vid dropped dead. Leaves me wondering, with a still opponent and following a visual demonstration and no-body was injured past a minor headache, how erle knows that it kills. Has he killed someone with this strike? Have you lieqi fan? Do you know anyone killed by this death touch? The Bear.
No I haven't and don't. But it still seems to me that your attempts at copying a video doesn't disprove the possibilty that it might work with the right training and knowledge of such systems. Btw, I have no axe to grind as far as Erle is concerned - no connection and not much knowledge of him beyond what I read on here. But I must confess to being an advocate of TCM and am academically interested in its martial potential. Given that there obviously are points on the body(mostly from the neck up I would guess) that can kill, even by an untrained hand, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that a knowledge of acupoints combined with penetrating strikes honed by martial training could provide targets not normally considered lethal, but which become so when performed correctly. Any spare beer going?
To my own knowledge of course there are points you can strike to kill. Are they like the movies where you do a light touch and the head explodes??? No, Dim Mak touches were described to me by one of my senior students: "When you go for death strikes they are not typically done in full combat motion. However, they are used once you have an opponent in a lock or hold where you can strike arteries, nerves, pressure points etc. Sometimes locks and holds can expose these even more." It is actually fairly easy to cause blood clots when striking arteries, once these are formed if they are small enough and hit the heart or brain this could then be called a dim mak. The difficult part comes in with learning very in depth anatomy and physiology of the body, in addition to your normal training routine.
I don't believe in death points. I can hit an eye or a windpipe or fingertip strike to the carotid artery, but I doubt I could go much smaller with precision at speed and even if I could I'm very dubious about the existence of points that can cause death instantly. I'm not sure I'd even want to learn - when would I use it? How could I practice it? Apparently a guy in the US did an acupuncture trial where he got a trained acupuncturist to put needles into someone in totally random places as well as in "legitimate" acupuncture points and it had the same effect apparently. It seems like the process of inserting needles into the facia and twisting them produces some placebo / benefit but the points don't matter.
Luckily the burden of proof doesn't actually rest on me under the trades descriptions act if erle trys to sell death touches without any evidence that they do as he is selling then he would be breaking the law. which states: What the 1968 Act does: This Act makes it an offence if a trader – a. Applies a false trade description to any goods; or b. Supplies or offers to supply any goods to which a false trade description is applied; or c. Makes certain kinds of false statement about the provision of any services, accommodation or facilities. So if Erle sells a service training Dim Mak it's up to him to prove it performs as advertised. The Bear.
Yes I do have beliefs others disagree with, but "incredible"? Really? Yes, I'm sure people have died when hit on the head, but that is not the same thing as there being reliable instant death points. Point taken, but I can practice a single knuckle instead of a fingertip to the eye and I can practice a fingertip strike to the windpipe at less than full power and still get an indication of what a more powerful strike might do. I wouldn't think they'd guarantee death though, though I understand from anatomical knowledge combined with anecdotal evidence that some targets (e.g. the windpipe) are pretty dangerous targets with a fairly high risk attached when hit at full force. Yup - I read it on a blog (which is no longer viewable) and few specifc details were given. I thought it was interesting though and maybe we'll find out more about such studies in the future. Munch munch. Yummy toast. Better than beer. Beer bad, toast good
Many of the far-fetched claims would be hard to disprove, I suppose. I'm guessing that in order to make a case against the service provider the onus would be on you to prove their claims were false.
I agree, doubt there is "insta death points" but there are points where you can clot the arteries etc. thus causing serious problems (possibly death if not treated). As for practice, the BOB is a nice model to work on finer body techniques, but of course with a practice dummy you can never see if they work. That takes a different kind of dummy
I would love to train with Earle. That is the only way to discover truth from bull. Having trained with teachers who have 'reputations' it is always interesting (revealing!) Personal experience of myself and others, I know it is possible to 'disrupt' peoples systems and cause severe heath problems that last for months, if left untreated.
Well, it's a good point really. How many people have died to prove the death points exist? Dim Mak, like everything pretty much in martial arts, is surrounded by a mist of obfuscation. "Dim mak" sounds really, really cool... where as "Striking vulnerable targets" sounds pretty basic. What's more, "dim mak" makes it sound like there's this whole secret knowledge that you might have, and others don't... whereas, actually, everyone with a body pretty much knows where their vulnerable parts are. I figure you could teach yourself advanced dim mak in half an hour just by thinking where to hit. Other than that, well, obviously if you're really powerful then a punch to the head or the heart is possibly going to do some serious damage. Nothing to do with disrupting qi, unless you choose to describe it like that. I figure doctors can describe it pretty well also - massive internal bleeding, trauma etc. As for Erle Montaigue, well, how openly does he teach this death touch stuff?
Also, I figure China isn't top of the animal rights league on the planet, to put it mildly, so if death touch was true, as in, a light strike, or a finger strike to some part of the body (I guess other than right in the eye - man what a gruesome subject) then it wouldn't be up for debate - people would just prove it on a pig or something. Would be more humane than cutting its throat - a quick heart stopping slap. Anyway, I figure the truth of most of all these things is that we've appointed massive fantasies about pretty mundane stuff.
