Actually I was pretty impressed. The no face punching obviously changes the ranges people operate at. In general people will usually settle closer and it is more a give and receive sort of thing. That is why Kyokushin (and bare knuckle karate in general) is known as a test character and fortitude and why their '100 men kumite' is basically a test of fighting spirit. I can't see why anyone would say, "Check out Kyokushin champions for REAL karate" yet not like the referenced videos. I can see someone having a problem with the ruleset (which is basically the same as Kyokushin) but not the practitioners. Some people really don't like the ruleset of Kyokushin, but as others have pointed out, all rulesets have advantages and disadvantages. The practitioners in these videos, however, are quite competent. I'd enjoy a workout with them. Well maybe I wouldn't, but I think it would definitely be a challenge. They are certainly not slouches.
I'm with puma on this, I read through the posts and feel he's being attacked for having an opinion. I plan on checking this class out soon, I'm in the area and hear very good things about the sensai and the sempai. I checked out the videos and wasn't very impressed, I realize it's point sparring. But I have sparred in my kung fu class, and Muay thai. I've also seen some kyokushin classes. This really was quite bad looking at the reputation of the club and the sensai clicking on the video on their website with the name "DKK retribution" The techniques seemed very sloppy and in the case of the black belts, this was quite shocking. I mean, years of training and kata's earn you a black belt yet you still fight like that? I understand what puma means by giving karate a bad name. As a prospective student it didn't appeal to me much, but I'm still going to check it out. On another note the website claims "effective close quarters combat" not sports based. How is point sparring, not hitting the face, with sloppy technique, hesitancy, from awkward positions going to help someone in a self defence situation? Half hearted punches and kicks, techniques? A little worrying.
Why so offensive? Was that neccesary? I thought I read somewhere in an earlier post it's point sparring, if not. That makes the video even worse. :| Edit: here, I looked at the video. http://www.youtube.com/user/Goranpowell And read the comment there. By the sempai. Goranpowell (2 months ago) Spam Marked as spam The DKK Tournament is a 'friendly' inter-club competition that operates a full-contact clicker system. The objective is to score points rather than knockouts (perhaps the music is a little misleading!) If that isn't the same as point sparring? Then I'm missing the point.
I don't know the folks in the video, have never trained at the club and have no axe to grind other than liking Sensei Mulholland's book, but one answer could be in exactly the dichotomy you post. If the focus of the club is self defence training and this kind of sparring is just a bit of occasional fun within the club, then they would look sloppy and awkward wouldn't they? I don't think this kind of sparring is a major focus for them at all. I don't see the video as an advertisement for the club, it's just something for their members to watch as a record of something from a few years ago. Still, the proof af the pudding will be in the eating so it'll be very interesting to see what you think after you've trained there a few times WN Mitch
Like I said I was just stating I understand where puma is coming from where it does look bad for their sake. I'm going to check out the class based on the reputation of the class and the instructors, if they where just having a bit of fun then good on them, I have no problem with that. But if this "tournament" is a serious thing then I'm a little put off by what I see, that's all I'm saying is all. This is a video of a tae kwon do school in russia that my friend goes to. I understand its tkd, and this tournament is a little bigger. But when I see sparring of a decent school I expect something like this. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz24bqtOcxE"]YouTube- ТаÑквон-До ИТФ - Ð.Крылов против Пак Чол Сон[/ame]
i.e. You get a point for hitting them hard enough to stagger them back. so not like this: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUu6npSxGg8&feature=related"]YouTube- Point Fighting - Ross Levine[/ame]
Holy crap that almost made me cry. Even WKF kumite is better than that! Why are they even wearing headguards?!
I'm seeing a sports arena packed with fans, with TV announcers and spotlights and everything. In DKK Retribution, I see people packed into a frickin' cafeteria, with some dojo member holding a $200 camcorder. Not even REMOTELY the same thing. You may as well compare an inter-high-school wrestling competition to the UFC.
But when I see sparring of a decent school I expect something like this. They are sparring under different rules and as a result no one is trying to clinch, knee, throw, takedown and/or groundfight (unlike the DKK guys). It's MUCH easier to be flowing and flashy and string combinations together when these things aren't allowed. The TKD guys have a mutual inclination to stay at kicking range as that's what each wants to do (they only really tend to start punching when the range gets closer after some failed kicks). When watching people spar or compete you have to take into account what is allowed and how that effects the result.
Plus, our natural inclination when someone tries to clinch is to throw our hands in the air and run around like headless chickens doing great big ghey screams Mitch
I meant the quality of sparring, not the cameras and the crowds. PASmith But when I see sparring of a decent school I expect something like this. They are sparring under different rules and as a result no one is trying to clinch, knee, throw, takedown and/or groundfight (unlike the DKK guys). It's MUCH easier to be flowing and flashy and string combinations together when these things aren't allowed. The TKD guys have a mutual inclination to stay at kicking range as that's what each wants to do (they only really tend to start punching when the range gets closer after some failed kicks). When watching people spar or compete you have to take into account what is allowed and how that effects the result. I don't mean their technique I meant the quality, the confidence, the non hesitancy, the tactical aspects, not the styles.
