Hi All, I have been reading the topics on Western Stick fighting and was wondering about the difference between it and FMA styles. I've only been able to view a few clips and the points I have picked up so far. 1. WSF sticks seem to be shorter 2. WSF uses the stick to "hook" the opponant. As you can see its a short list so any information would be useful. Thanks J
Sorry JamieD I think your comparison may not be so easy. Many FMA use different sizes of stick. I play regularly with Louie WMA and his stick is longer than mine FMA. And mine is quite big for an FMA stick. Stop sniggering you know I'm serious. I'm not sure what you mean by hooking your opponent. Can you elaborate? I find it very hard to think of any definitive differences. Should there be? I'm inclined to think not.
you are taking a stick about so long and wacking at someone, so I doubt thre will huge differences between them.
Cudgel said more or less what I was going to say: there are a finite number of ways to hit a person with a stick.
Hi there, Can you clarify what you mean by western stick fighting. For the system that I study there are three main types of stick, the bastoncello (small stick max 1ft long), the baston (like a cudgel about 2.5 to 3 ft), staff which is 6-8.5 ft. Other types f western stick fighting include cane, walking stick, single stick, cudgel just to name but a few and each type has its own system and method of usage. For example single stick is considered to be a training weapon for smallsword, backsword and sabre, but evolved into a sport in its own right. As such it has more in common with the swords that it represented, what with it having a basket hilt to protect the hand. However, something like Barton-Wright's system the stick is based on single stick, but it also has its basis with other things, and the stick is indeed used to hook the opponent. In Fiore's system, if you take the single sword and apply this to his stick then the butt end can be used to hook and trap. However, the main difference between FMA stick and western stick forms is that with FMA I am more active when not engaged continually making figure 8 cuts that are extend when I actually want to strike my opponent. When not engaged in those systems of western stick I find that the weapon in still until it is used in engagement. Also, again, depending on system, the usage of the left hand and the feet and legs may vary as well, earlier systems being much more ready to use them to gain the advantage, whereas later systems, it is not seemly to use them, and the emphasis is more placed on looking good rather than the effectiveness of what is going on. Again this is just a general view, and there are probably loads of examples where this rule of thumb will be blown apart Hope this helps, Regards Rob BTW, bashing someone with sticks is good fun
One difference I have the impression exists is the basis of movements. In the FMA I learn, movements are based on tools. So a movement is learnt by a beginner as a single stick drill. Then he is taught it as a double stick drill, then a knife drill and then an empty hand drill. The follow-up to the movement (eg. disarm, further strikes) is also learnt somewhere in the intermediate phases. So for example, we don't learn "boxing" as such. If my opponent throws a punch, the movement by which I now appear to parry his fist into my elbow is actually a movement that started out months ago in training looking a bit bigger, and with a single stick about 2 feet long. As another example, the movement in response to a horizontal strike coming at your shoulder is the same whether the opponent is holding a two foot stick in one hand or a long staff in both hands, and whether you have a stick or a knife in your hand. In the western arts, I have the impression that stick fighting, boxing and wrestling are separate skills with movements, all valid no doubt, but not proceeding from a unified basis. However I don't practise western stick fighting so perhaps someone will be able to point out if I am in error.
Hi KM, Again it depends on system and period. For the later period works, there is a seperation of the different elements as you have percieved but with the earlier works there is a lot more integration. With the treatise that is almost my reason for existance, you do the same sorts of things unarmed, with dagger, with single handed sword, two handed sword, staff, cudgel etc etc etc..... so again, it depends what in particular you are looking at. I suspect that much of the seperation started to come about with the demise of the stage gladiators where they no longer used a variety of differing weapons against each other, and sword work become much more the pursuit of the officer and the gentleman, while pugilism and wrestling became the pursuit of the working class. Certainly if you look at the stances of back sword that is show by Zach Wylde you can see that the same stance is used with a sword for pugilism and for staff, and the basic biomechanic is more or less the same, slightly altered obviously for the different weapon in hand. Hope this helps Regards Rob
A stick is a stick, IMO, you'll find more in common then you'll find different...but my 2 cents ain't worth a nickel.
