Did Aztecs influence Philippines?

Ahh thanks for that. That sheds some more light on the subject.

 

Most academic literature that we have here in the Philippines is written in English (save for some elementary schoolbooks), so I don't believe you'd have any problems at all. Most books written in Filipino are more fiction/literary pieces.

On Phil. history, I recommend books by Ambeth Ocampo, F. Landa Jocano, and William Henry Scott, all of whom write in English.

My earlier comment was not directed to you, nor this thread. It's just my experience with some other threads around here. Some people sometimes just skirt questions or arguments that other people present them, which makes the effort rather futile and frustrating. I know some other people here have experienced this as well. Sometimes I think it may be a communication/language barrier.

As for Aztec influence, probably so, as there was the Manila-Acapulco trade route by the Spanish galleon trade. But I don't know how significant that influence is. In our history classes here, that is just mentioned in passing.

 

Ahh.. true that. I might be in luck then.

Brilliant. Thanks for the list. I'm looking them up right now.

The more I read about the role of the Spanish in the Philippines the more I wonder how much of the Spanish system of sword and dagger could have been transmitted to the locals. Fascinating question.

ahhh... ok my misunderstanding. Yes I can agree sometimes the post forum style of communication isn't always the most accurate. But hey... what else would we do with our working hours?!

828

 

During the Spanish occupation the natives were called Indios and Filipinos were the spanish who were born in PI. and they were called insulares and penensulares those who born in Spain.Maybe their is some connection yhe Manila - Acapulco Galleons trade and some of the natives Filipino escape or despersed to Mexico and cross to US maybe in Baton Rouge .

 

errrr...post on forums?

btw, i know how dyak_stone must feel. i have placed some posters on the ignore list just to keep my blood pressure from rising.

 

Yes I did get the info from GM Lazo's website, point being that different books or references many times write with different points of view as well as the author's personal opinion written as if it were a fact, when in reality it isn't true. Like I posted else where it doesn't matter what the Aztecs did or din't do, this is a forum about Filipino martial Arts. I'm sure if the Aztecs influenced a change in U.S. military weaponry and uniform( leather strap around the necks of American marines) I would want to learn their martial art.I plan to gather info and post it here again on these forums so as to stimulate all of us to continue to present as much info on FMA as is possible. The pasted info sure got a response, but thats what I like is to get info flowing so others can learn or become interested in FMA. As for me I am fortunate to be in the middle of the FMA world, where I get to see the different styles prevalent here in California as is 'Gile' who lives in NorCal near Stockton where a lot of FMA in America started. Cheers!

 

The reason you were questined on your source was because it wasn't cited... relatively standard practice when posting work by others on MAP.
It's considered good form to cite your sources.

Obviously people are going to have different perspectives on this issue. I didn't think that was ever in question.

But I think you fall into the same trap you're trying to avoid when you start talking about 'truth' in the context of a subject such as this where so much is still unknown.

Yes it does. In the context of this conversation it does. Did you not understand the original post and it's questions?

Whether or not Aztecs influenced the U.S. Military is immaterial frankly.

Good. Then it'd be nice if you were considerate enought to cite sources so as to avoid misunderstandings about who is writing what.

The notion to post lots of useful material is commendable... but you're going to run into a big problem when discussing the Philipines in any real depth if you write off prehistory and influences as you have. If we go by your concept of what's valid for discussions in this forum then it means we might as well completely write off anything prior to sixteenth century as surely there was no Philippines or Filipino people as we now know it.

Getting a response that is germain to the thread is fine. But if you'd been following the thread it's not as if there wasn't a conversation going on before you posted that. There was and much of it still really hasn't been addressed.

Getting a response for the sake of getting a response is just a waste of bandwidth and does nothing to further the conversation of the topic at hand.

You were warned as much by the MOD after this post:

The whole issue is that the 'response' that got was more about why you didn't cite sources than it was central to the theme of what's being discussed in the thread.

Just because it's the FMA forum doesn't mean that talk of any other cultures or contributing factors is now excluded. No culture develops as an island unto itself... especially not the cultures of the Philippine islands. Certainly not when the prehistory of the Philippines is a central part of the discussion.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?!

If you can add any insight as to the the what's, why's and how's (if any) of Aztec influence on FMA or Filipino culture then by all means... we'd be interested to hear it.

898

 

Slip, You are an interesting person to read and read and read, some will post information (source) and you'll bad mouth it, then when someone just mentions something, you jump their case and ask for reference's. Truly a master at work You are truly talented at causing discord.

But at least you did get into this thread, and I thank you for that. Lots of posting of information from other sources (without links) When I do that others say it is a copyright violation. So I post links that you don't care for

Regards, Gary

 

Either put or shut up.

Just because someone posts and cites references doesn't mean it's all good. It can have proper citation and still be a crap reference. In which case I will call them on it. That's not badmouthing anything... that's critical reading.

If you have a particular example in mind then please quote it. If not just hush because you sound silly.

If you had actually bothered to read the bits of this thread where I've asked for citations or reference material then it'd be blindingly obvious why it was in question. If not... then you really need to work on your reading comprehension... and while your at it really try to come to a new understanding of what discord actually means. Because your way off the mark.

Just stop with your rubbish.
I've posted one bit where I haven't posted a reference (post #34 in this thread to be exact) and it's clear that I wasn't making it out like I wrote it. Furthermore I said I'd come back and link the source... which I will when I get the time to dig it up. Seeing as how this subject is rather involved... it's going to take some time.

You're trying to paint it as this is common habit with me... where it's decidedly not. If you can't back up what you're babbling about by quoting it or giving he exact instances then you really should just keep quiet.

The reason so many here at MAP don't take you seriously or don't even bother to respond to your posts is because most of them are inane links to the bloody obvious. You don't seem to have figured that out yet.

There has been plenty posted in this thread of substance... the vast majority of which you've yet to address. You might try doing that before you attempt to call others on the carpet for their posting style.

But really this latest post of yours is really just about on the paltry level with the posts that so many here at MAP have come to expect of you. Sling mud without providing any exact examples and all the while contributing very little and working very hard to avoid any of the real issues.

Same crap different day.

 

Hi Slip,
Well lets go back to the reason I started this thread. You mentioned that the Aztecs had no influence into the Philippine culture (different thread) so I started this one (as mentioned).
So now you are into contributing quite a lot of information (that is out on the internet), something, if you would have done in the first place, you would not have embarrassed yourself in the first place and been caught, I'd say.

You are good. Slip

Gary

 

What part of "take it to PM" is so difficult to parse, gang? If you've got a problem with one another, sort it out. Elsewhere.

You want to deal in information (with proper citations if possible), fire away. You wanna bicker, knock it off! And if you want to post highly informative posts with personal insults scattered throughout, DON'T. All that does is create more work for me. Because then, I've got to either deep six an otherwise useful post OR go through each post editing you goofballs. (And, for reasons I can't fully fathom at the moment, I use that as a term of affection.)

Now, for the love of ap, could we possibly have a conversation that sounds like it might actually have been conducted by people and not randomly generated by the SnideTech 2000?


Stuart

 

One of the reasons I started this thread is because of the fact that I have a new Dr., he is from the Philippines. The thing about the medical field in America and the fields that touch on it in regards to adult care is many of the Philippine population are now involved.

Meaning they are not out in the fields working all day now they are socializing with other cultures more. So more is mentioned and since the info is out there, I decided to start the thread.

I have talked to many that mention the DNA is the clue to how many came from Mezo America and went to the Philippines or the other way around.

http://ron.heavengames.com/gameinfo/nations/aztec/xaztec.shtml

Since many of the donors were male, they seem to spread the gene around more than the female.

It is not well known out side the medical community I guess. This is the location to get information (web) if you are interested. Some of us are.

Gary

 

Wrong. I never said that.
Get your facts straight before you jump in and start to accusing people.
:bang:

Here is my post in your original thread - the one that got locked almost immediately. (it's #11 in that thread)

Read it. It's not only a question for you... which you've not even come close to answering. It also expresses my disbelief in your theory. But before we can even get to that you need to understand the importance of not switching the goal posts in a game for the game to make sense...

Comparing what may have been Aztec influence on Philippine culture and and Aztec influence on FMA are two different things. A subtle but crucial distinction. It doesn't seem that you've made that distinction.

I'm still waiting for you to provide any proof or any credible shred of evidence that the 'Aztecs' had any influence on FMA in any way, shape or form.

Can you provide any of it?

Furthermore to be pedantic (and then some) about it... The term Aztec is generally only used as a historical term referring to people of the empire of the Mexicas. The people that you're attempting to refer to would be more likely to be one of the following:

1) Indios
2) Mestizos
3) Nahuatl speakers (Nahua people)
4) descendants of the Aztecs
5) descendants of the Tenochcas

but not strictly speaking 'Aztecs'. The Mexica empire didn't exist in any form similar to it's former Aztec glory by the time the Spaniards got to the Philippines. Which frankly opens up a whole can of worms because the Aztecs were not necessarily one big homogenous group of people... they were comprised of Mexicas, Toltecs, Chimichecs, Olmecs and a vast other number of Nahuatl language speakers.

All which is somewhat a moot point because no culture is immune to influence from other cultures... culture being adaptable and dynamic in form and not static. But from your post history I'd really honestly question what model of culture you use as your jumping off point for discussions such as these.

A big red flag for me is the title of your last thread that got locked:

What's more is you've yet to even show there was any codified manner of martial art the that Aztecs had that could have influenced FMA.

Can you provide that?

Seeing as how it's not even been conclusively proven that Spanish sword arts have had a profound influence on FMA I don't think we're going to reach any conclusion on what the influence (if any at all) the Aztecs had on FMA.

I think if you go back and read my post in that thread you might be able to understand that I was asking you to illuminate us as to what you thought those influences were.

How hard is that to understand?

Again - if you'd bothered to read what I've posted... it's easy to understand the influence that was brought by Nahuatl language speakers from Mexico the the Philippines. But there are an entire myriad of issues involved with that as well. Not the least of which being which culture (Nahuatl VS Spanish) had a longer, more direct and more lasting influence.

Wow.
Too bizarre. You seem to be trying to live out some detective fantasy based on you inability to comprehend what was originally posted.

If I was you I'd worry less about others being embarrassed and more on reading comprehension because you've clearly put your foot in your gob on this one. It's all there - as it was originally typed for all to see. Whether or not you choose to understand that is a different issue.

1) Go back and take a look at what I've posted - there is a myriad of sources and information. Because it's accessible on the web does that make it somehow invalid? I think not. If you can show anything that I've posted is questionable... then do so. That's the whole point of conjecture on the subject. You... for whatever reason don't seem to understand that.

2) I've both lived and worked in the Philippines and probably have spent more time in the Islands and around the people than you ever have. I've got Filipino family members and I grew up in one of the larger areas of Filipino population in S. California... live now in one of the largest expatriate Filipino areas in the world. So it stands to reason I've got a fairly decent understanding of the people, the culture, the history.

3) If you'd actually bothered to read any of the information that's been posted - then you certainly failed to give it any real thought and respond. So if you feel threatened by me posting in your thread then that's on you.

If you spent more time responding directly and concisely to what's been posted and less time making accusations and this thread would be a more interesting thread and less of a soap opera.

1029

 

slippy wins!

 

I think this thread was better when I was talking about Philipina nurses, it was more fun anyway.

 

right you are sir...

1046

 

let me know where and when.

 

Slip if you notice I said "Culture" not FMA in particular, all your debating is awry I would have to say, lets say culture as in the first thread that got locked down.

Definition of Awry for you slip:

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/awry

I have to mention some of the reason it did get locked down is your #11 reply that was way off base IMHO.

Now I know it is hard to understand the difference between culture and FMA in particular so I'll mention FMA stands for "Filipino Martial Arts" and just to be accurate to the term culture I'll post this for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_the_Philippines

Hope that helps you.

Gary

 

Just stop the BS.
Here is your frikken post genius:

In no uncertain terms you state that I mentioned that 'Aztecs had no influence on Philippine culture'.

I never mentioned that. Ever.
Plain and simple. If so please qoute me... or just hush.

You can't because it wasn't said.
You misunderstood what was said and ran with it.
Plain and simple. Stop squirming and ducking and dodging and and just own up.

Let me post exactly what I said... since you seem to have missed twice now:

The world culture isn't even in the bloody sentence. :bang:
If you can't understand that I specifically asked you to enlighten us how the Aztecs influenced FMA then there is really no point in continuing any conversation with you because you will only warp it to fit your own bizarre reality. For the love of Jesus read what was posted (several times now in fact). How hard is it?!?! Especially when I've reposted the same damn thing twice now.

It's plain as day and it's there for all to see.

 

Final warning:

The sniping, bitching, backbiting and general garbage that I'm seeing in this thread (after repeated moderator warnings) ends now
Any more and the thread goes bye-bye and some members could well be finding themselves unable to post for a while
That is all