Well peeps, I tried the search function which turned up nothing...if this has been posted before I apologise. Do any of you cross train in any way to supplement/enhance your taijiquan? I have been doing so for years with people from many various MA. I find that it helps my taiji. My co-ordination/ability to move more freely/stepping into my opponant/losing my fear of hitting someone/fear of being dumped on the ground are just some of the things I have faced and am addressing. Many of these would not have cropped up during a normal taiji class. I feel training this way has fast tracked some of my skills. Thoughts, anyone? Carys. :Angel:
I supplement a large amount from Yiquan, in fact I spend more time on that than on Taiji. Sometimes do some Xing Yi nei gong, I find that its good for opening up various parts of my torso and consequently adds some interesting qualities to some of my movement. Occasionally I also do some Dragon Serves Tea Cups drills from Ba Gua, its a great exercise for flexibility, mobility, core strength, coordination, opening/closing and twisting/spiraling. Wudang sword sometimes, have not quite figured out what it does, but its fun to do the form and the nei gong. Some of my mates do muay thai and a few play rugby, so whenever there is an opportunity to have a little scuffle, we'll usually go for it. However, we're usually drunk and regret it the next day as either us or the surroundings get damaged in some way. I'm still recovering from when I rolled in to the corner of a coffee table with my spine earlier this year. Don't really learn much from it, or don't remember much, but its nice to put some pressure on and see what comes out. Have not had a chance to do much sparring since me and my Taiji training buddy and I got kicked out of our old venue.
I don't cross train per se, but I still do some of my old boxing workouts. I've toyed with the idea of taking up Muay Thai (if I could find a gym) and applying what I already know to training it, but I'm still not sure how or if they would fit together.
Hey Sandus, I did some muay thai with my mate (sober) i.e. him trying to get me to do muay thai, did not really gel well with me, I think the range is quite different to taiji. For example the leg blocking just seemed like a silly idea, personally I felt much more comfortable moving in and somewhat out of the way and taking the person down or whatever, as opposed to standing there and getting whacked full force in the leg. Also, not sure if this is common to muay thai, but my mate kept squaring off to me and trying to exchange punches and was telling me to do the same, whereas I felt much more comfortable moving out of the way and entering where I saw an opening. The clinches were quite comfortable though, muay thai does not teach you about balance and how to use it to the extent that taiji does, so that is relatively easy as long as you can strike first and/or put the opponent off balance, otherwise its knees and elbows galore. Then again, maybe you'll like it better than me.
If we assume that Tai Chi is predominantly a throwing and grappling art (which I very much do) we can see that to become a rounded fighter a TCC practitioner must add striking (wether from Boxing, Thai Boxing or anything else decent) and ground fighting (BJJ, CSW) to be a well rounded fighter. It all depends on your goals though. For purely self defence Tai Chi can be decent enough (if trained well), for SanShou you are half way there, and for MMA you are one third of the way there. I'm writing an article just for fun on this very subject, if I finish it anytime soon i will post it up.
This is a sad peice of text. You should not be looking for cross training, you should be looking for a proper TCC class or a less pretentious dance class! So, if you are picking up the skills by doing other MA, it sounds like you are using the TCC to compliment the other style!
I used to cross train extensively. Now I don't, as I get everything I used to get from several martial arts from Taiji Quan.
I think TCC is 80% of the way there for San Shou, the only bit missing are the kicks. In terms of Cross training, I have always robbed any art blind of anything usefull. Right now the whole class is benefiting from a friendly boxer by really working of pad skills and a tighter guard.
Hello, CarysB Yep, I do boxing like Sandus said for independent mobility of the arms. Mobility is what you are asking, what can help fast track coordination. Boxings workout is out this world, good for the body and is the most fun, for me. It is the best way to cut fat of the body. The rounds approach or interval training. Pagua helps with foot work and leg take downs. The ways to throw someone is so focused on in Pagua. It teaches how to set your body in position to throw where as Taiji is showing you what to feel for when to take the throw type thing. Hsing Yi is linear and takes advantage of the idea that there is just one thing to think which is, "enter". It has a way of making things sound complex than, when done are actually very straight forward. Cut to the center type mind set. Example: Metal is to in essence block a punch down the center, that simple. Very similar to the pok in Wing Chun. Wing Chun has allot in common with Hsing Yi they both us only about five basic moves. Wing Chun just approaches that from th natural 50/50 weighted stance. What I learned from it was to take away ground from someone in a fight. This involves angles. Shuai Jiao is what taught me, the most about how the other person is affected when you start the throw or try to grapple. It helped with learning when to take the advantage point in the fight, means learn when to attack. What I found was lacking from Yang Taiji is the idea of independent arm or leg mobility though it does get some focus, if your teacher is aware of this and opens it up to you. Chen Taiji on the other hand has a whole form dedicated to it. Both try to teach how to read via the feel of the opponent. Power develop very similar. While some will say speed is not a part of learning how to fight I disagree. When I boxed, I learned there where three ways to fight, Boxer or Swarmer or Slugger. These are methods of fighting when you fight if you know that a boxer picks his shoot than try swarming. If the guy swarms than pound and hard. If slugger than box them. This is something left out of most systems or school of martial arts in my opinion. When I first started boxing never heard the term swarm it is more a current day definition or at least that's not what my instructor called it. He referred to it as, "keeping your fist in there face", "peppering". This swarming is about fast punching and speed with your steps and your hands. The greatest weakness of most Martial Arts is they, 'take only one view and think it the be all end all'. The idea is to understand the approach that a person takes to attack you, will give you the answer to what to do to defeat them. You have to have a "strong will" and "mind" to do that, fear will cause you to look away and hurt you. That is why I think so many kung fu system fail in the street. To be able to modify your fight approach is one thing. To up development like in throws is another. Shuai Jioa takes the cake in all the different ways to take a common device and turn it into a way to help training. "Belt cracking" comes to mind, best thing to help develop the muscle to quickly explode into throwing someone. You need to look at the muscle that develops the method of how to improve that area first. This is how I came up with what would be good to do, when I picked each style. Shuai Jioa made me learn to think like that, this muscle help with speed or whatever. I hope this helps CarysB.
I started out learning Yang style TCC, progressing to short form Chen and Sun. I studied these for about 4-5 years, till I took up temple style. It took me then another 2 years of study to start cross training in Hsing I and some Ground fighting. I personally have found that these two have increased my TCC root, balance and overall confidence. One thing that you don't work on in TCC is break falls and this is necessary (imo) for MAs. Hsing I helped greatly with learning how to strike with full body power and root. Now keep in mind I am NOT saying TCC does not do this, but Hsing I emphasizes it more and develops it quicker. Ultimately though, I spent about 6 months training in Hsing I and Ground fighting and just don't have the passion I have for them as I do for TCC. I feel now like my short stint of cross training is over. But I do recommend anyone to explore other depths and cross train b/c each art does have something great to be added. I am now comfortable getting thrown around, (will probably continue to train in some aspects of ground fighting on my own) and now have a better feeling of root and striking thanks to Hsing I. I feel these two things alone have helped my TCC, traditionally, while it may not be called "cross training" Chen style having two forms tends to "amp up" TCC with your own progress. So maybe if we were able to train in a complete family style Cross training may not be needed, but so few good teachers.
I do agree that Taiji is with out a doubt the Grand Ultimate it in compasses so much in it. That is why I make the point that to get it Taiji, you need to know what it means how someone attacks you will dictate your defense. This is contained in Taiji it just sometimes requires another point of view. No problem, it is a good question. The thing is I did it over main years of my life. At one point I went all the way from Kansas City to California to find and see what "Machado, Juan" was teaching in Grace Jujitsu.
Actually this has made me think a bit, I wouldn't say I have "cross trained" now. I did not take up Hsing I or Ground fighting to improve my TCC. Rather b/c I thought I would enjoy it as well. Though honestly the by products of the two did help my TCC, looking back that was not my original intention.
cross training... i'm a chen style fella, but in the past couple of years have started on yi quan as well. initially i wouldn't have given it a second thought; i would only practice tjq. not because i thought it was a superior mega art, but because there is just so much to learn! when i met people from the chen family who were just bloody excellent it was inspiring, when i lived with them it was inspiring and also a little depressing. to get to the level of skill they have it would take regular training of about 4-6 hours a day. for a few years. something which i don't have the time for... now i'm not saying that tjq takes 10 years before you can fight or owt, i'm sure you can use basic strategies very early. but i am equally sure that at the same time the student isn't developed enough in whole body power and relaxation to make the strategies the safest option. so out of curiosity (and my teacher telling me to do it!) i started cross training in yiquan. a much simpler system. but with the same core principles of relaxation and whole body power. it really made me re-evaluate my tjq training methods in terms of their purpose and efficiency. it turned out to be very beneficial! but i had already done years of tjq which helped me understand the yi quan very quickly. all in all, do what you want to do, especially if it's enjoyable! if you are serious about being a tjq player; make sure your basics are sound, make sure you understand the purpose of your tjq training. get the go ahead from your teacher and go widen your horizons!
Why do you say that? What kind of striking does your school teach? How is it drilled? (not rhetoric I am actually curious) Is it actually from Tai Chi? How about Judo, or Wrestling, they don't teach striking because it isn't the point of the art. This is similar to my point of view with Tai Chi, that's why Tui Shou doesn't have striking.
In my opinion, taiji has quite a lot of striking, just not the sort of striking that you find in boxing. Its in a different range, and in order to use it you have to move to that range. For example, if your gonna use taiji to box against a boxer, your gonna get beat, because "boxing" is the "boxers" range and he/she will try and keep you in their preferred range by jabbing or what have you. If you want to use your taiji against a boxer, you have to cross their range and put them in yours, perhaps by attacking their guard or parrying their strikes and moving in, once up close, you should have an advantage for several reasons: you should be able to generate more power over shorter distances, you should be able to strike with more parts of your body - hips, shoulders, etc, you should take advantage of your own and your opponents balance/center of gravity, you should take advantage of your coordination to attack and defend simultaneously, sensitivity through contact, neutralization... blah, blah blah.... basically, there is a lot of stuff that can be learned from taiji that is usefully, or perhaps only really works up close... but enough intellectual dithering from me, its not like their is time to think of any of this in a fight, if its drilled in to you, it may come out, or it may not, but whats important is to fight in your range... or so I think..
it's not fair to say that tuishou has no striking; it does. but, yeah, tjq is a close range contact/grappling based art.
All the techniques and stratagies you mention are legal in boxing, so why don't we see it in boxing? A good quote from my instructor "there are only 2 ranges. Getting hit and not getting hit." I don't doubt that there is striking in TJQ, but is it the essence of the art? No (at least in my opinion and what I have been taught. When asked whether he enters his students into SanShou competitioners, proffesor Li Deyin had this to say.
