Congratulations America

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Dead_pool, Nov 6, 2020.

  1. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Ero. I've never been in the military.

    I would say we need narratives that include and engage the right, otherwise they will continue to ignore them.
     
    Dead_pool likes this.
  2. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    It's hard the include the right, without validating their current world view (quite a high percentage of the GOP approved of the insurrection for example), there must be a way to reach the less extreme members however, I think bringing back the legal requirement for news reporting to be factually based, and for the court cases where fox have argued their opinion pieces weren't to be taken seriously as factual more widely published could be a start.

    More practically for the UK, two seperate fox style news channels are being set up here this year, perhaps seeing what has happened in the US will allow us a glimpse into our future.
     
  3. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Highly Skilled Peeper Supporter

    Do you really think anyone worth a hoot is going to engage in discussion with you when your summary of arguments made against you is, "sorry your feelings are hurt."

    Even if they were hurt, it's hilarious that you can't say, "I'm" sorry if "I" hurt your feelings.

    Talk about signs of narcissism man.

    ::Laughs in not wasting my time::
     
  4. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award


    Ok, up to you big guy!

    I honestly offered an apology, but if you don't belive me, or its not up to the exact way you want it structured, that's fine too.
     
  5. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Your "apology" was finger-pointing at me combined with "I'm sorry if your feelings are hurt." That's not an actual apology for pages of telling a Jew he looks like a Nazi, telling a government employee he looks like an insurrectionist out to kill government employees...and then halfway through the conversation, moving the goalposts to calling me a loser who does "cosplay," just for wearing civilian clothes that are practical, popular, and in my eye attractive...and acting like that's what you've been talking about all along. Which has nothing to do with anything and is just being a jerk.

    Since your "apology" says "you've widely misrepresented my statements," here's a reminder of some of the examples of what you said in your own words:

    "If you don't like being associated with Nazis, don't dress like them"
    "I'm not saying you are a nazi, I'm saying people in general will associated the look with the movement...It's all just market forces, they don't want to be associated with those that burn crosses."
    "But that's ok, just because I think it's silly, doesn't mean you have to care, it's not like it's the police profiling you to be searched because of your clothes is it."
    "tactical camo material, and advertised by male models pretending to be manly men who are manly"
    "people cosplaying being in the forces"
    "I havn't called you anything, theres no need to play the victim here."

    I'm out of this thread.
     
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  6. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Ok dude, sorry you feel that way!
     
  7. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    That's a wierd way to frame this, are you calling me an anti Semite?
     
  8. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    You can engage without validating, but you do have to take them seriously. There are too many not to. When ideas are baseless and inconsistent, dispassionate questioning is the way to unravel them. Telling someone they are wrong teaches them nothing, and usually makes them double down on cognitive dissonance.

    Reagan and Clinton let the genie out of the bottle for news media in the US, and it will be very hard to reverse. Thankfully we still have rules about due impartiality. OFCOM could arguably do more, but they have protected us somewhat from the worst excesses of RT, for example. We'll have to wait and see how they deal with our new stations.
     
    Dead_pool likes this.
  9. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    To clarify- NON- mod post here.

    Dead Pool, I think you need a better grasp of what is going on in America before pronouncing things like Khaki's are Nazi clothing. It's just not a thing here. It's a rather ridiculous assertion. Khaki's are a very general broad base of clothing. Associated with Kornacki and Target employees as much as anything else. As are a lot of the other clothing you mention. Basic hiking, casual wear, are worn by tons of people for a variety of reasons. While specific para-military gear might fit your claims, you are really over-generalizing a lot of clothing that doesn't belong or fit your claim. Your assertions did aren't widely accepted as true over here. They just aren't.

    MAGA hats are another thing entirely. It expresses a particular ideology with the "MAGA." Which really is now associated with Fascism and totalitarianism at this point. Considering we had MAGA people commit an attempted coup.

    But TONS of people wear brown khaki's in all walks of life. It is really a ridiculous reach, as is a lot of your other clothing claims.

    So honestly, I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you just weren't thinking how it came across when you said in post #112
    but I can totally see why Mitlov, as a Jewish man, took offense to that and your overall assertions. And your apology sounded like political speak. You know, how politicians say they are sorry, without taking responsibility actually for their words? Yeah, that.

    There are several people on here, like Ero. David, and now me, letting you know that (in our opinion) your posts came across poorly. Instead of doubling down, I would ask you to go back with an open mind and think about how it came across, even if that wasn't your intention.

    The coup attempt is not over here. It is incredibly scary. We have people in Congress feeling like there are fellow Congress-people that might commit violence. Qanon conspiracy people being given roles in government in education. Some Republicans are now trying to pass various laws of voter suppression. Arizona is flat out trying to make it that they can override votes and install whomever they want in government. Those of us who belong to a minority status have an extra level of concern, considering world history.

    It isn't just some fun thought argument. It is real. I said it before and I will say it again. I am planning on making an exit plan to flee the country if need be. So maybe, just think a little bit more carefully about the accuracy - or lack of - how you associate those of us on the Democratic society side of things with the traitors and insurrectionists? Even a claim like we are dressing like them? A little support and sensitivity for your American MAP brethren would be nice, right about now.

    Thanks for considering this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2021
  10. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    I don't think you're an anti-Semite, but I do think you're trolling, and I was trying to explain why your comments were extraordinarily offensive given the audience you were directing them too...a point that Aaradia, Ero, and David understood just fine.

    Claiming you "honestly offered an apology" after saying "theres no need to play the victim here" is another example.
     
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  11. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Thank you. And again I'll say if I've upset anyone with my words or arguments I apologise.

    After rereading the thread, I think what I would term tactical, and what you would term tactical would be different things.

    I did try and use examples such as tactical kilts/ tactical baby carriers etc and how hiking gear isn't what I meant, but obviously I wasn't clear enough, and the minor point is moot anyway in this context.

    (The baby carriers are amazing bit of marketing gone overboard BTW, Tactical Baby Carrier® )
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2021
  12. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Johnson poised to appoint Paul Dacre chair of Ofcom

    Looks like the ex editor of the Daily Heil is going to be the new head of OFCOM so I doubt standards will be enforced at all.
     
    David Harrison likes this.
  13. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Honestly seeing regular Republicans saying that it wasn't a coup attempt and that El Trumpo did nothing to encourage it. Like deadpool I'm finding it hard to find common ground with the right wing/Republican/Tory view of the world.
     
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  14. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

  15. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    You don't have to find common ground, you just have to find the cracks into which you can sow the seeds of doubt. But you have to treat them like adults and approach them seriously to be able to do that, no matter what your feelings about their views are.

    Ignoring or belittling these crazy QAnon ideas works in their favour - media and politicians can dance around the subjects, using insinuation and dog whistles. If you were to get these people to articulate themselves in a systematic way, the inconsistencies would reveal themselves. That's what I mean by taking them seriously.

    QAnon believers are being voted in to represent the people at the federal level, and the president has flirted with these themes for political gain. You can't ignore it and hope it goes away. Sunlight is the best disinfectant, and all that.
     
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  16. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Also finding it hard to treat people wearing Buffalo horns and Camp Auschwitz t-shirts as adults.
     
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  17. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    That's an easy one - if you take them seriously then you also humour the belief that the QAnon shaman guy was actually a BLM/antifa plant who was there to make them look silly.
     
  18. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Highly Skilled Peeper Supporter

    The theme developing in this thread is, "grand generalizations and stereotypes are bad." On this page, you've loosely associated everyone on the political right with the events on the 6th (even those "normie" ones), then you've condensed it down to viewing them all as buffalo boy and butt wipe from said event.

    Do you really think a large portion of people on the political right here in the States wouldn't agree with you that those two specifically deserved a swift kick in the face? If so, what is your source of information for this association?
     
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  19. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Most voters say the events at the US Capitol are a threat to democracy | YouGov
    "
    In fact, many Republicans (45%) actively support the actions of those at the Capitol, although as many expressed their opposition (43%).

    Among all voters, almost two-thirds (63%) say that they “strongly” oppose the actions taken by President Trump’s supporters, with another 8% say they “somewhat” oppose what has happened.

    Overall, one in five voters (21%) say they support the goings-on at the Capitol. Those who believe that voter fraud took place and affected the election outcome are especially likely to feel that today’s events were justified, at 56%. "
     
  20. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Laughing at the loonier parts of the right wing in the US has become reflex.

    We need to remember that five people died as a result of the events on the 6th, and another police officer has committed suicide since.

    If Americans were making jokes about the murder of Jo Cox MP, I'm not sure that the British people here would see the funny side.
     
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