Just recently I have begun to explore other martial art based websites that have forum sections. The initial reason was to consider how they compared to MAP. Also to learn if there were any new perspectives on subjects that are discussed here on a regular basis. Thus far I have'nt been sufficently impressed with other sites to consider the idea of signing up right now. Maybe it was the kind of language or attitude found in some of them. Or the level of participation was'nt sufficent to cover most subjects. Reguardless I think MAP is the best site. Having said as much here's the subject of thread. There was a common trend on every site. From what I read it appears that a few select martial art styles recieve heavy criticism from those who create threads and post on them. Which rasied the question about what the level of criticism was based upon really. Mentioning the styles would only provoke a number of arguments so that can be left alone and some answers without the "stepping on toes" might be found. Does the criticism reflect common sense or common bias? What reasons are behind such a trend? Within the posts I found a number of those who posted had bad experiences from taking classes in the style being spoke of in such negative terms. Both the schools and instructors get blamed. Then you have issues raised with specific techniques and training methods. Sometimes I also read posts that reflect the enjoyment of joining in on the style bashing. Which of those are the most contributing factor?
Honestly, I think it's just intellectual laziness. It takes a lot of work to look at a situation as it really is. Labels help to reduce that work load, even if the label doesn't necessarily work out to be very representative of the situation it's supposedly describing. I will name names, mostly because I don't want this post to slip into vagary too much. Take taekwondo for example. People immediately tee off on taekwondo. Even people whose opinion, under most circumstances, is very valuable to me. But it's a mistake to approach taekwondo (or any other style) as if it were a collection of absolutes. Tendencies yes. Absolutes no. Take two possible teachers: 1) Former U.S. serviceman. Learned taekwondo in Korea while in the service. 2) Early 20-something. Champion in freestyle forms. Has a wicked kama routine. Does anybody really think that learning from these two people would be the same experience? Yet they both sound like perfectly plausible taekwondo teachers, yes? I think it comes down to one simple fact, really: We like to know. And when we don't have enough information to know, we'll quickly settle for thinking we know. Stuart
Yeah, but I tend to think that in this case our prejudices help protect us from paying good money for crappy stuff. Like my prejudice against Nigerians asking for financial help on the internet.
They definitely serve a purpose. We use assumptions all the time. Not like we can approach every situation, day in and day out, with "virgin eyes." It'd take forever to get anything done. But we take it too far.
Sometimes it appears that practitioners of a given style are partly to blame for the negative remarks leveled against what they learn. Before using a specific example this is not a thread intended to bash various styles. Yet here on MAP if any martial art is not well recieved Wing Chun does provide a great example of the students building up what they do until such claims become too broad and start debates. For anyone having read a number of earlier replies it might seem that I have issues with the style of Wing Chun. Not having an extensive background in the art form encourages me to listen and try not being too critical about what claims are being made. Then along comes a student of as much that not only points out thier views on the positive aspects yet goes further by suggesting perfection in a martial art. Maybe we need to be a little more open minded by allowing students of different styles the opprotunity to explain the hows and whys of thier technique and training. Yet the students have to be honest about what is being done instead of making outrageous claims if ther want thier words to be given fair consideration.
That's a human nature issue, I think. Bigger than just a martial arts discussion. People generally want to believe that they're being sensible, consistent, and clever. Imply otherwise and they'll defend themselves. Most of the time, you don't even need to imply otherwise. People probably spend a lot of time validating their decisions to themselves as well. Unless I'm an aberration.
Oh, definetly. Every time I make a questionable decision I spend ages telling myself it was the right one. And the more irresponsible it was and the more disastrous the consequences, the more certain I am it was the right decision. Then realisation hits...
Ap, as usual has hit it on the nose. A lot of it comes down to what people expose. I'd say people in general like to expose the bad rather than the good that way when it comes to a secondary person seeing what that initial person has to offer or say they form their opinion off the back of someone else's which then continues to perpetuate. Rather than objectively seeking their own uninfluenced opinion from the start which is where the laziness argument comes into play. Its almost like a neverending game of chinese whispers or even the fast food equivalent of learning. When it comes to Martial Arts Forums in particular youtube and similar methods of communication can bring forth a lot of the misconceptions of any style. I'll use Wado Ryu Karate as an example because its what I know (to a degree). The majority of the clips in representation of this style are less than par that coupled with unsatisfactory comments from John Smith who now hates all "krotty" because of his bad experience can paint it in a bad light. People then use this as a platform to decide that any particular style, as a whole, is crap. There is a Martial Arts leaflet in our sports centre where we train that breaks down all the Styles studied there I noticed that in the description of our club which my instructor wrote it says "based on Wado Ryu Karate". Notice the based on? Whilst what we practice in, for all purposes, is Wado Ryu Karate its always going to have the instructors slight individual interpretation of technique and application. People are too quick to paint everything with the same brush based upon their initial reaction.
Not just humans. Other animals rationalise their decisions as well, according to some recent study performed on monkeys. Makes sense though, really... I mean humans are basically just animals. I have a tough time distinguishing what really separates us these days.
In many ways, yeah. That's right. Though the smarter we are, the more likely we are to second guess our actions. And therefore need rationalization. (Or something.) Though just once, I'd like to see a lioness anguish over whether she should have gone with the backclaw rather than the straight crossclaw. I don't know how relevant it is to this conversation. But I'll put it out there anyway. Self-programmable instinct, it seems to me. Animals have instinct to guide them. They can be retrained, effectively rewiring their instinct (or their behaviour anyway). But they won't do that for themselves necessarily. Humans can recognize a need, devise a way to reprogram their behaviour, and then do it. I think that's kinda central to martial arts. Our instinct may be to flinch, curl up, and hope for the best. But we recognize that it's not a terribly effective instinct. So we train ourselves to do something else. As I say, though, that might be totally out of place in this discussion. I'm sleepy.
simple Wrexham la' all good mate..I'm not smart enough to understand some of it..but I have a gut feeling where you coming come paul
Nah mate. It may well be that you're not stupid enough to understand some of it. It could be complete and utter bunk. Trust me, I'm not one to believe that everything that comes out of my brain is a diamond.
