Chiropratic = crap

Discussion in 'Injuries and Prevention' started by yannick35, Mar 31, 2008.

  1. yannick35

    yannick35 Banned Banned

    Chiropratic has been proven to give relief not fix the pain, in many cases, its has been proven that the adjustement being very violent can actually lead to disk damage and hernia.

    I never met anyone who has been fixed by chiropratic, i only met people who after a while where fed up about allt he crap the chiro was telling them and promises false promises to fix them and left frustrated like myself.

    Chrio are fighting a losing war, being that sport physio, osteopaths and prolotherapy are a far better option to take when it comes to 100% healing someone, they also work in teams, the chiro works alone or sometimes with machines and massage therapy.

    How can an adjustment hold when the ligaments and surrounding muscles cant hold the bones togheter? still the chiro pays no attention to this at all and beleives that adjustments upon adjustments will eventually fix the problem.

    My pelvic always gets unaligned, i got it adjusted 150 times a least, i ask the chiro about core muscle training and maybe sending me to see the sport clinic, he said that its worthless and at some point the adjustment will hold.

    How can i thrust or even beleive what the dirty chiros are trying to tell me when there only goal is to get my money not fix me.

    When a person decides to go to the chiro its a life long sentence, adjustments might be given every month but to be honest if the muscles have been strengthen with proper PT and ligaments and tendons with prolotherapy why would anyone need to go waste there times at a chiropractor.

    Chiroprators are very good at bashing other technics basing there techics on subluxation. Well how are subluxation created to start with? Muscle imbalance, weakness. Its a war between them and everyone else, but its a proven case that chiropratic is crap.
    Studies have proven its limited effect and patience who got no benefits at all, after going to 1 or 2 osteopath treatments are completely relieved of there pains?.

    My first experience with chiro was when i first injured myself, 2 of them reajusted my pelvic, that made matters worst i was like this for a year and a half, then one night out of pure pain i went to an osteopath who adjusted my pelvic the correct way and that relieve the pain within my spin, but the damage was done and i needed to rebuild the muscles which i did but was unaware of prolotherapy at that time.

    I went back to chiropratic due to posture issues, i was told they could work on this has well, i wasted another year and a half on this, i actully felt 100% better after leaving chiropratic and stop getting all theses useless adjustments.

    The chiro i was seeing brought me into is office after i got my MRI review, told me that he was the only one that could fix me since i had subluxation, after doing my research i found the true meaning of subluxation and how dirty that pig was, same has all the chiros i have seen. He started screaming saying that he had been a chiro for 35 years and that no one had left the clinic unless he said so, even told me not to come crawling back when sport medecin would have done nothing for me. He was afraid because he knew deep down inside that chiropratic which he has been doing for 35 years was worthless even worst then a bill pill of ****.

    Visit the rebuildyourback.com website for studies on chiropratic that will never make you go there again.

    http://www.rebuildyourback.com the person that build this website went to a lot of chiros during 10 years and never got fixed. He has such good insights on everything conserning back pain.

    I hate chiros i really hate there guts. Now Steve please dont try to make me change my views on chiropratic i have seen 5 of theses virus in my quest for pain relief and they where all scum.

    The best thing is a proper rehab program that can be done at home to strenghten the core muscles, proper streching to decompress the lower back and spin, inversion table can be amazing for this purpose. And chronic pain can be fixed with some prolotherapy, if no hernia is present, most of the time its lax ligaments.

    I am on my third prolo treatment and feel a lot better, still the medical doctor told me that i will need a lot more treatments to fix what the chiro did with all these useless adjustments.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2008
  2. yannick35

    yannick35 Banned Banned

    Best reply ever chiro sucks in most ways then people think.
     
  3. rubberband

    rubberband Valued Member

    Again, I am not sure what kind of chiropractor you were seeing.... what I have been taught includes the therapies and modalities of physio therapy and rehabilitation... I am not a spine specific chiropractor and the protocols I practice are drawn from all musculoskeletal techniques and heavily researched making what I do evidence based...

    It is clear that you have made up your mind... just as it is clear you harbor alot of hate toward my profession... that is fine with me... I just don't understand why you take your hate out on me when I have offered only support and kindness?

    differences in opinion are what makes the world go around...

    like I said before, I am glad you have found something that works for you.

    steve
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2008
  4. rubberband

    rubberband Valued Member

    Old Paladin,

    thanks for the heads up on my spelling error...

    also, I never tried to get into med school because biochemical therapy is not what I am interested in... the human body is a wonderful thing and there is validity and limitation in all treatments...

    take care, steve
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2008
  5. old palden

    old palden Valued Member

    Glad to help with the spelling error, I know I took a cheap shot at your profession and I felt bad about it....

    until you spelled my name wrong.
     
  6. rubberband

    rubberband Valued Member

    ...Sum day we bad speelers will untie and take over the word... mark my world.

    forgive me... there is only so much detail one can retain while trying to subdue the inner fighter and speak with professional distance...

    if you are interested check out the link below and see for yourself what I must know and then compare it with what an M.D. has to know... I think you will be surprised... since 1975 there has been a standardization of what knowledge a medical practitioner called doctor must know in the United States...

    http://www.clevelandchiropractic.edu/academicPrograms/doctorOfChiropractic/courseInformation.aspx

    also keep in mind that many of my teachers are M.D.s

    take care old palden,
    steve
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2008
  7. yannick35

    yannick35 Banned Banned


    The hate i have inside is because of all the lies i have been told, now Steve keep in mind that your future patience want to heal and get better, i really wanted to get better when i was seeing the chiros, all of them but they where after my money and gave false promess.

    Now would you not be mad if that happened to you, i have been wanting to get back into MA for 8 years now, wasted of my life because of the pain.

    At some point when you can help someone give in and send them elsewhere, dont keep them with you.

    I could have smash my last chiro head in. Same goes for the others i have seen 2 of them got me worst a lot worst.

    If you are not spin base then its a good thing, and if you work has a team with massage therapist and sport PT even better.

    Chiro can be good for a quick crack but for chronic pain you have to look elsewhere.

    Think about this, and do understand my frustration against chiros.
     
  8. rubberband

    rubberband Valued Member

    You clearly had bad experiences with either spine specific chiropractors or chiropractors who's state licensure required them to be spine specific... this does not make the profession or practice of chiropractic crap...

    you speak about chiropractic as though you know something about it when you clearly don't... you only know your bad experiences and the opinions of others who bash chiropractic by mixing up information from textbooks I have read and taking things out of context...

    one thing you need to understand is that chiropractic practice is defined by state law and it is the political point of view of your state that determines what a chiropractor is allowed to do as treatment... in some states chiropractors can do surgery... in other they are only allowed to manipulate the spine...

    with that said... I have personally known four really bad chiropractors... but that did not make up my mind about the practice... because I have also fully recovered from several physical injuries and prevented others from becoming chronic...

    I disagree from the stand point of personal experience, observation, and education with your point that chiropractic can not treat chronic pain... I had planned to write more on this but fear it would only insult you...

    one last thing to say before I leave this thread... free yourself from hate... forgive the ignorance of those who harmed you... look to a positive tommorrow when you are healed and back in your life...

    thanks for the tips of seeing things through my patients eyes... I will remember your experience and learn from it...

    take care, steve
     
  9. yannick35

    yannick35 Banned Banned

    That is the main issue is when everything went bad i started to do a lot of research on chiropratic, spoke to a lot of people who got treated by a chiroprator, around 250 people, that is a lot of peeps, and i got 80% negative feedback, for chronic neck pain, lower back pain i got 100% negative feedback. Most of them went to there family doctor which told them to never go back to the chiroprator.

    Many people with neck pain got better after starting to do exercises for the neck lots of streching none of this is tough by the chiro.

    Visit the rebuildyourback website for all the true information on chiropratic and back pain.

    There are also a tone of forum where people share there personal exerpience and again the feedback is negative has hell.

    I just is not normal for someone to always go back for adjustments month after month.

    From what i have read chiropratic is useless, compared to prolotherapy, sport physio.

    There are 5 sport clinic around my area and none of them have chiropratic, i called them and asked them why they told me because we dont beleive in chiropratic, it can be counter productive and osteopathy is far better.

    I have to agree because my pelvic the first time when i had pain in the spin was re-adjusted more then 25 times by 2 different chiros and it was after that an osteopath replaced it in one adjustment, the pain never came back in the spin. He then told me that sport physio would be best for me to strenghten the muscle.

    Chiropractic has a marketing scam: They call you each month to tell you that you need to come back to get adjusted like your life depends on it.

    They make you feel bad when you cancel a rendez-vous like you did the worst thing in your life.

    They send you birthday card at your birthday, how dumb is that suck up please.

    No please steve chiropratic is the worstshit ever and you will never convince me or any other people otherwise.

    The people i spoke to went to 100 different chiros and the result was the same.

    Relief for 2-3 days then the pain comes back, you have to go back to get adjusted.

    Wallet gets thin chiro get rich
     
  10. old palden

    old palden Valued Member

    Define surgery, and tell us what states allow chiropractors to perform it.

    Are you calling the insertion of an acupuncture needle surgery? The removal of a wart? The lancing of a boil?

    The word "surgery" carries a connotation that goes well beyond the purview of the chiropractic profession, and I'm confident in asserting that no state in America allows a chiropractor to wield a scalpel.

    It's a fine line between being a propagandist and a liar.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2008
  11. Schmeag

    Schmeag Valued Member

    I'm not completely sure about this, but isn't chiropractic philosophy based around noninvasive treatment?
     
  12. yannick35

    yannick35 Banned Banned

    95% of chiroprators are based on the theory of subluxation, which in some parts is true, the bones places itself in a way that causes the muscle to spams.

    There are some chiroprators that do not crack, some use machines, or useless devices.

    Now a days most chiro have all theses advanced machines they scan your back with and you can see depending on the color where the subluxation is and where there is a lack of blood flow, very cool but thats all it is.

    Confirmed by my medical doctor this morning a matter a fact this is what happens when you decide to go to a chiropratic clinic.

    You injure yourself and wait a few days to a few weeks for the pain to go away, some times it does but some times it just doesnt and that is a sign that there is something wrong with your lower back or neck.....

    Now chiropractors are not hard to find there is one every corner street.

    So you make the terrible mistake of calling the clinic, the mind game has just begun.

    First you speak with the receptionist, one of the first question she will ask you is do you have insurance, what type of coverage. This will help the chiro determine the lenght of the initial treatment, 500$ coverage is usually 10 weeks, twice a week at 40$ a pop.

    Then you meet the chiro and he gives you a good exam, bent, turn, twist in everyway, quit good actually. After this is x ray time and the critical moment (Mindgames once more). I am not giving you any treatment right now, come back in 2 days so we can take a look at the x rays, if i can help you i will tell you but there is a chance i might not be able to help you. (Yeah right).

    When you go back its sure they found something and will help you, even if its an hernia, DDD.

    There are 2 types of patience that go to the chiro the ones that have blind fate and are ready to sign in for a life long treatment, and the ones like me who are hard headed and will do research, will ask questions.

    Patient like me chiro dont like because we tell them to there face the what they are doing doesnt work, and there is no progress.

    Again the chiro have an answer. Like on the x rays i see progress, or give it time to heal, and other well tough up answers to make you feel better.

    At some point when you tell them that you want to go elsewhere they freak out and start bashing other therapies saying that chiropratic is so good compared to the rest.

    Now if you miss an ajustment its the end of the world, they make you feel really bad, no you cant miss your adjustments if you want to get better you just cant.

    Every month the receptionist will call you to tell you that its been that much time since your last adjustment and make you feel like your life depends on this.

    At your birthday they will even send you a card that is so nice.

    Now tell me theses bastards want to help you, i have been to 5 chiros total and its all the same, even if i would have gone to 10-15 of them they are all the same.

    Its all about money, mindgames.

    That is all you have to know about chiropratic because that is all you have to know.

    If you have pain get into a sport clinic they will get the job done, wont jerk you around for 2 years straight and if they really cant help you they will tell you, if you need prolotherapy they will refer you, cortiol shots and even an operation.

    There should be a law against chiropratic, close all the clinics and hunt them down like dirty dogs, sues there asses to the bone for all the crap they have caused.
     
  13. yannick35

    yannick35 Banned Banned

    Getting this of my chest is a blessing and i can acutally feel the hate leaving my body.

    Feels so good, even better then triple chocolat ice cream bownie with extra cream.
     
  14. CatWise

    CatWise Valued Member

    yannick35,

    I have to say that your last post is nothing but a bashing - blaming game. You have a pain (sounds like you weren't that compliant of a patient) DC couldn't help you so let’s blame them for trying.

    All my life I was very athletic and healthy. I lived all other Europe and in 1993 I started college in US. I went on the typical college diet, pizza, fast food and tons of coffee. I was also boxing, so I didn't start gaining weight. In 1995 I started getting powerful headaches that would cause me to loose my vision - very scary. My medical doctor put me through tons of tests (and because of my boxing experience he thought I may have caused some damage). Lots of prescription medication, lots of therapies, being pocked with needles and 2 years later, I was in even worst shape. I went from size 6 to 18; my back was out 4 days out of the week and I literally walked hunched over like a 90 year old. I had no energy, and I had such painful sciatic nerve pinch that I could barely move. When I complained to my doctor, he would say I wasn’t 18teen anymore and bodies change as we get older (I was only 23 years old).
    I got a part time job at the chiropractics office that also combined nutrition. After two weeks I asked for help. In 3 months, my headaches went away, by back pain was totally gone and my energy started to comeback. I originally needed a lot of adjustments because of the shape I was in, but as I cleaned up my diet, and took the supplements I needed, I got to the point that I would get an occasional adjustment. Now, I only get it every 2 weeks or so, or if I do something stupid. I get them because I LOVE the way I feel after the adjustment, not because I am in pain.
    I have been a VERY happy chiropractic patient for the last 11 years (I see him 1 time every 6 month for my nutrition check and whenever I feel the need for adjustments which is usually every 2 weeks or so and only because of the amount of training and sparring I do). My chiro keeps be healthy, I don’t get sick and I am able to train at a very high intensity. My son is under his nutritional care, and at age 7 he was on antibiotics only 1 time in his life, and sick (cold, fever ear or stomach ache) only 3 time in his entire life and never sick for more then 2 days.

    First of all, Chiropractic IS a non-invasive practice. It does work with sublaxation and the philosophy that if you have a sub-luxated disk, it puts pressure on the ANS (Autonomic Nervous System) and this causes problems. When you give the adjustment you relieve the stress on the ANS so it can do the job it was designed to do. 50 years ago all you needed was 2-3 adjustments a year and after each adjustment you would almost get a miracle. Now days, the same adjustments do not hold. It is not that the chiropractic is no longer valid or can't help, but the body it works on is not the same due to the trash diets we all eat, the toxins that you just can't avoid and all the other junk we are all eating. All that is more stress on the ANS, which an adjustment can’t relieve. Our bodies are basically lacking nutritional components that we used to get from our food when food was still real food and not chemically engineer crap we are eating today. It is a lot worse here in US, then in other countries. Most Chiro in New Zeeland or Australia only give 2-5 adjustments a year and people get better. The same goes for Acupuncture. See, chiros adjust bones; put them back into place, but what holds the bone together? Muscle and tissue, and what effects that? - Nutrition. You can keep putting the bone back into place, but if you have a problem with nutrition and you cannot take care of the muscle, it will put that bone out of place again.

    So, I have to say that I take offence to your post, because it could defer someone from a very good help. Also, your comment about the insurance… most chiropractors don’t even take insurance companies, and are cash only. My Chiro is all cash, no insurance, and his office visits are $30.00-$40.00 depends on what the visit entails. My insurance co-pay is $25.00 – I don’t mind paying $5.00 more for something that helps me and doesn’t end with a prescription.

    My husband also has 2 friends that had herniated disk problems. One undergone a surgery, the other went to see my chiro. Guess which one is in a better shape today? Yeah, the one that went to see the chiro.

    I do hope that you get better, and I wish all the best to you.
     
  15. PCG82

    PCG82 Valued Member


    A few points,

    1) the Autonomic nervous system will not directly cause you pain, you can get referred pain if there is damage to it but you are far more likely to get symptoms related to the functions of the ANS , i.e. flushing of skin, altered organ blood flow, bladder function etc, not pain.

    2) the 'toxins' of the western diet are what? prosesed food contains high levels of salt and fat true but these have little direct effect on the ligaments and muscles (ligaments are relatively avascular so what we eat will have little effect anyway).

    3) just because someone you know has had a bad or good result from any treatment that does not mean that it is going to turn out that way for everyone :bang:, thats why patients are quoted percentage figures in relation to procedures so they know how many percent had a good outcome.

    However a certain percent ineviatbly had a bad outcome since no treatment is without risk or 100% effective.

    I agree that all alternative medical practitioners have their place and are useful but to bring out the 'i had a friend' line is a little silly imo
     
  16. Schmeag

    Schmeag Valued Member

    Catwise, good post to even the scales a little. There's been a lot of chiro-hate on this thread and it's good to see some positive aspects of the profession being mentioned.

    Muscle, ligaments and the bones themselves are all factors in joint stability. Exercise and potentially nutrition would help increase the influence of these factors in joint stability, but these can be improved by implementing an exercise/diet program that you might receive from a physiotherapist. I'd say that if chiropractors are not achieving results from spinal adjustments, then they should probably widen their area of expertise to include something as simple as an exercise regime (like crunches to improve ab strength to stabilise the back). While you wouldn't expect them to have to know how to conduct something like a mental state examination, a more holistic approach to the musculoskeletal and neurological aspects of the body would probably help curb negative feedback. It'd give them more corridors of approach to the presenting problem and as a result make them seem less like a voodoomaster with a single solution for everything.

    Interesting. Out of curiosity, is it the chiropractor's view that only the ANS that is affected by intervertebral disc herniations?

    Also, how exactly do spine adjustments work? I've never been to a chiropractor before, but I've been told that if a disc has herniated, then there is absolutely no chance that one reverse it, unless it's via surgery. And if the disc herniation is severe enough, no amount of chiro or physio treatment will stop spinal nerve compression, which may explain why one of your friends undertook surgery and still ended up worse than the one with the chiro.
     
  17. CatWise

    CatWise Valued Member

    PCG82,

    On point 1. I get what you are saying and I agree to a point. This is just a short and quick point. Let’s face it; there is a lot to this subjects and different view points. When I am talking about ANS, I am talking about the functioning of the Sympathetic and Parasympathic. If there is a lot of stress on the Sympathetic, the SNS will be hyperactive and PSNS hypo-active. PSNS needs to function in order for the healing to occur. Simple 2 sense view point. Take a look at Dr. Alexander Riftine's research in that area. His equipment for ANS assessment is now FDA approved and has been used in the Olympic Test Centers and by major Cardio logical Words across the country.

    on #2. Preservatives and Pesticides, chemicals for a better color, smell, taste, etc. pick up a package of food and look at the ingredents list. For example, bread should only have 3-5 ingredients take a look at Wonder bread, how many are listed? How many can you pronounce or even know what it is? Fast food? Don’t get me started! Do me a favor and see if you can get your hands on Dr. Pottenger, MD research on Cats and diet. The first and ONLY fully controlled study on foods and the effect it has. Did you know that in US they are going to be doing cholesterol screening on young child (6 years of age) and if they are overweight, or in "danger" of high cholesterol (meaning they don't have it yet) and will be put on cholesterol lowering drugs like Lipitor!

    On point 3, you are right; maybe it is a bit silly. But you don't find a problem with bashing the entire profession and giving an image of a money hungry rip-of-artists? I do. I may as well say that Medical doctors are murderers and should all be put in jail, because in US, leading causes of death is misdiagnosis, correctly and incorrectly prescribed medication. Does this mean that all MD's are guilty? NO! Is all medication bad, again NO! It is something that one should think about and ask questions. There are good chiro’s and bad chiro’s, just like in any profession. I just don’t like it when someone deems it all crap.
     
  18. CatWise

    CatWise Valued Member

    Schmeag,

    Thank you and I completely agree with you. As for the Chiropractic View point on the ANS, I can't say. I am not a chiropractor. I just know from the research that it is part of what they are doing and part of the problem. I do know from my chiropractor is that our bodies are quite amazing in designed, and when you have a problem it is usually a way for a body to tell you something is wrong, fix it. ANS is the part of the body that actually controls the bodies functions, and we are just in for a ride. I know its much more complecated that this, but I am not in the mood to write a dissertation - I'm already long winded as it is.

    On my friend and the herniated disk. I am sure that this is what you have been told; my friend was also told that. I know that his chiro did some adjustments, but a lot of it was also exercise and diet changes and life style changes. It wasn't a quick cure like so many are looking for. You know, pop this pill and you are good to go! It was work. The reason why he decided to wait with the surgery was because first he saw our other friend go through it and it scared the living c*** out of him and he had a baby on the way. He wanted to be there to help his wife. But also his surgeon told him that if he has the surgery now, (in early 30ies) he will feel better, but it could return in 10+ year and then he will not be able to have a second one. So, this is why he decided to wait and see what he could do to improve it. Well, 8 years latter, he is totally improved, that doesn’t' mean that he doesn't have the herniated disk, but he is symptom free and it’s not limiting his physical ability. He is a correctional officer in New York State, and he is quite physical and active.
     
  19. yannick35

    yannick35 Banned Banned

    I couldnt care less about chiroprators, and just to say i didnt read any of your post because one again i just dont care, i went my life back thats all.

    Chiros where not able to give it back. Its like spreading the disease.

    I did read the part with hernia and surgery, please dont tell me that the chiro fix the hernia because its bull right there.

    If the person would have tried the RYB program and had prolotherapy done on him he might have avoided surgery.

    I stant by my points and beliefs on chiropratic and i dont give a fly you know what if its a bash, a personal attack or anything else.

    Killing a chiroprator is not a crime its a public service from where i stand.
     
  20. PCG82

    PCG82 Valued Member

    I agree its wrong to label all members of any proffession either good, bad or any other adjective since they are all individuals. I totally agree that labelling all chiro's bad is wrong i think i just get a bit angry with the 'my friend' bit as people often forget everyones presentation/case is different, as is the person treating them. Its something i hear often though.
     

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