Martial arts was never about clinging to "thousands of years of tradition" It was about evolving to be better than those proceeding, and those they came after - did so, and those that came after, also done so. It was about developing better fighting methods to prevail This was why it is all called martial arts. Simply, "thousands of years of tradition" really did not fully understand many things in science, including the human body. It was much easier to “create folklore” for things that could not be fully explained
Wrong - the Greeks viewed their Gods as little more than childs stories after 5th Century BC when they actually started asking for , you know, PROOF of something. The pantheism that manifested itself in the Greek mythos was largely connected with aspects of character or requirements for a situation - think of it as a form of mental preparation by focusing on a specific aspect. The Greeks and Romans als did not need their Gods to bless them or draw power from them - they used to pray for help but would go ahead anyway hoping for a boon but no relying on it. Now with regards to TCM, there is a whole thread on that elsewhere - and it is a poop show like all these threads degenerate into. At the end of the day what most advocates claim is Chi rational people ascribe to placebo effect - and placebo explains it clearly and covers off all bases without hiding behind pseudomysticism
Shizzle. If you would shorten and reverse some of your sentences, I would think this was a "Yoda Post" Chi-when I cant explain what is happening to me or around me...I must be "high"
I was referring mainly to the application of logic rather than supernatural Gods.However I can see your point as a belief in these deities might help to summon up the right mindset for fighting.Correct imagery can soon arouse a violent mindset.
Very true. Back in the 60's many students worshipped their instructors almost like demi-gods, a reverence some instructors even expected. A lot of the teaching methods were severely flawed because the concepts, principles and methods we have today -- thanks to a better understanding of physics, biology and biomechanics -- simply did not exist back then. Students today are far wiser and can make more informed decisions regarding their training choices. Is blind acceptance a good thing? I don't think so. While this acceptance you speak of may be true for beginners, I know that people like Hannibal and myself certainly are not new to the martial arts game. If I start a new martial art and the instructor feeds me a piece of information which directly contradicts the evidence-based knowledge I've developed over the years, then of course I'm going to question it. Challenge it even. I think everyone should. It helps stamp out stupidity. Should training conform to "modern" concepts? Of course. Those modern concepts are what led us from stupid training methods in the 60s, 70s and 80s, when it was common for students to be injured or burn out before they hit 30, to intelligent training methods today which produce visible gains with minimal injury and increased longevity. As for your bit about, "Those concepts are based on an angry isolation of mind and body, resulting in an internal war that is used as the basis for sparring," this is more of the airy philosophical crap I was saying we need to avoid. Sparring is an internal war based on an angry isolation of mind and body... WHAT THE F...???!!! Seriously. I spar with my training partners to see if what I've been practising works or not. And that's it. Let's try not to fluff up the subject with wordy crap. Again with the philosophical crap. Any sensible training method, developed in modern times or other wise, should develop an ability in the practitioner to use minimal movement and energy, to use techniques finely and efficiently. Heck, you just need to take a look at beginning kickboxing students who flail wildly all over the place compared to calm, composed and calculating champions. If you thought I was talking "tough" then you need to get out more. I'll keep an open mind if someone presents a new concept. But I won't be so open minded that I'll let my mind fall out. If someone presents a concept which challenges the evidence-based knowledge I've developed over years of observation, testing and verification, then I'll say those two words which kick the crap out of bullshido and pseudoscience every time: "PROVE IT." Those two simple words never fail to demolish all these arguments about Chi and internal, invisible, impossible life force energies and powers all those nutters go on about. I will ridicule anyone who says "It does exist" without presenting evidence because they're deluded idiots.
Are you by chance channelling the entire 5th century BC Greek population ... you know, PROOF?! Sound's like a philosophy, a modus operandi, a weltanschauung, a world view to me. Channelling again Hannibal? I merely suggested that people might show some respect for other paradigms. I didn't join the thread to throw poop. It's ok think that it's placebo. Some do and some don't, yet I posit that we all feel we are rational! However, (to everyone in general) it is not ok to insult, ridicule, bludgeon and bully those who express respect for another culture's world view ... there is no learning or sharing that way. There is only resentment.
Lets not get too excited now. We most likely all stray once in a while ... and it all depends on how MAP interprets it I guess. But a post threatening to ridicule anyone who has a different opinion to your interpretation comes very close to a declaration to incite conflict, in my book.
Good lord. Just how soft has practicing soft-style martial arts made you? I think there is a difference between calling someone deluded when they're adamant something exists when there's no empirical data to support their statement, compared to saying I hate jews, gays or clowns. If you have a problem with any of my posts you can press the 'report post' icon (red exclamation mark) and the moderators will review it. After all, it's their job, not yours, to make users aware of the ToS. Besides, I can't see where I've actually been aggressive to an individual user, just the concept of Chi being flawed because there is no evidence to support it. There is bound to be some conflict on MAP because of the simple nature of opposing views. It's called "debating." Am I going to be softly-softly in my approach to the subject of Chi? No. But that's just how I am. Will I "flame" another user for the sake of being a troll? No. And I fail to see where I've done that. Oh, and I'm still waiting for evidence to support the existence of Chi. That means something more concrete than supporters of the concept saying it does.
Osu, Hummmmm..... feeding off your (well earned) reputation here! Yet you can't say you "fail to see where you've done that": you are clearly aware of it. osu!
Also to mention, to maintain this reverence, instructors would do denos, like breaking, chi, etc. Not all students are wiser. Many students still commit a degree of loyalty, refusing to let go their instructor, esp if it was the first. Well, I guess I am in the same "boat". But this started many decades ago for me, when one of my teachers simply said to me; "Don't take my (his) word for it-go out a study-research more" "Ask the Why?" The "Why?" was a single question applied, which upon a answer, if you asked yourself it again, you got another answer from further study. It all comes down to constantly challenging. I cannot understand "why" people cling onto traditional concepts when the whole purpose of martial arts was to evolve. The purpose was to become better than any art before. People have to use "philosophical crap" to justify a opinion. However if this opinion is fable/fetched, will never be accepted from that such person It is much simpler to cling onto a belief, than to admit when such subject was false. In other words, many people tend to be in denial and desire to stay that way, then to accept a wrong. It is like apologizing or backing away from a fight.
If this is the case, then we ought not state we cultivate chi, cultivate chi balls, nor demonstrate chi with sily demos If this is the case, then Tai Chi, should be named simply Tai The problem is when believers of Chi, try to manifest it as something supernatural, or it giving them ability above others
In pinyin its taiji rather than taiqi.Ji and qi have different meanings."Taiji" means "great pole".If you try splitting it into two words it becomes almost meaningless.In fact "qi" or "chi" have no real meaning in the English language.My teachers wife,who is Chinese,has told me that its impossible to translate qi/chi into English and retain its full meaning.She has tried to explain to me what it is but I still don't understand.The nearest we have got to is the sense of being alive.You can't really measure how alive someone is,only go on how well the system is functioning,but that won't give an indication of how the person is feeling.
Chanelling? No - I just have what is called an e-d-u-c-a-t-i-o-n and one of the things I spent over 5 years studying was ancient Greek and Roman history, and that includes the languages. So yeah, you are wrong - don't like it? TFS
If chi can be cultivated and developed with these mystic exercises, why can I do chi demos better than most advocates I have met and I don't even do it?
Ah. But the chi advocates would rebuttal and say your martial art training already has Chi development and you dont realise it
Ahh ... an "e-d-u-c-a-t-e-d", "university trained" (?), "specialist" in ancient history (specifically that which influences western philosophy) and languages ... 5 years? No sheeet!? Of course that makes you the reigning forum expert on Greek mind-set for the period! :love: But you do tend to generalise ... just a wee little bit ... Hey! I'm not angry or upset about your take on Chi. If anything it cements for me (empirically) how the typical mind percolates when it is bent on changing other people's perspectives that it deems inferior. I've seen the same intransigence across cultures ... instead of tolerance (rare) it appears to be one of the baser aspects of being human ... hehe.
