Causes of death.....

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Dead_pool, May 14, 2019.

  1. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    About fifty percent of Americans drank alcohol in the past month.

    Alcohol Facts and Statistics | National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA)

    About twenty to thirty percent own firearms.

    So with 3x as many alcohol deaths as gun deaths, the per capita risk of death from drinking alcohol at least monthly is equal to or greater than the per capita risk of death because you own a gun.

    As for America's total suicide rate, I'm wary of saying we have an epidemic because of statistics that cherry pick one suicide methodology or one demographic. Our total suicide rate--all demographics, all ages--is not unusual. Is a thirty five year old father committing suicide by jumping any less tragic than a nineteen year old commiting suicide with a rifle?
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  2. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    So what happened to alcohol related deaths when alcohol was banned in the US?

    Is the drinking age 21 in all the states? Is the late drinking age leading to more binge drinking?

    Would their be less successful suicide attempts if their were less guns available.

    These at a policy level are quite complex questions, but at a personal level they can be quite simple, reduce what you drink. If you have depression, seek medical care.

    So you think the lack of healthcare people who can't afford insurance have, negatively effects your death rate?

    U.S. Uninsured Rate Rises to Four-Year High

    Edit, this isn't USA vs UK, I'm just trying to look at the differences between the countries to discuss how to generally avoid on a personal level the risk.

    If you systemically have guns available, what is the best way to reduce the risk from that personally.
    Same with alcohol, same with processed meat, same with vacine preventable illnesses, same with swimming pools (which are really really dangerous).
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Here's a thought, the existence of legal access to abortion has been linked to a lowering of crime rates.

    Legalized abortion and crime effect - Wikipedia

    With abortion now in the process of being made illegal in some states, as an individual what is the best way to reduce that crime rate risk, move state?
    pgsmith likes this.
  4. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    The one thing I've learnt through all the gun debates I've had online over the years is that actually American's have it exactly how they want it.
    They can freely own guns and that's that. End of.
    People outside America see this massive horrific problem, massive murder rate, mass killings, Sandy Hook, kids shooting kids, cry for help suicides that don't need to end in death, etc etc.
    But to an American there is no problem to solve. Those things are just a price worth paying to have a gun.
    Americans want to own guns and so long as the people being killed by those guns aren't "them" nothing needs to change let alone there being an actual desire to enact change.
    Criminals, gang members, suicide victims, "bad" gun owners (the negligent, the lazy, the poorly trained), "bad" gun owners families and children and "victims" that failed to defend themselves with their gun are the people that get killed and the average American doesn't see themselves being in those categories. Therefore the risk of gun death doesn't apply to them.
    Dead_pool and Southpaw535 like this.
  5. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    That is really unfair to say when the thread was just about STATISTICAL rates of certain things causing death, the and all I've done is show that the statistical rate of gun ownership causing death is similar to the statistical rate of drinking causing death.

    I didn't go into my opinion of what US gun laws should be, or my actual personal support in passing certain gun laws here in Oregon, not because I like the national status quo, but because the thread didn't call for it. Just like how I also didn't address my personal feelings about alcohol consumption because those aren't statistics either.

    Saying I don't care about dead kids is false and incredibly rude.
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
    Dead_pool likes this.
  6. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    It also doesn't take into account the social damage of alcohol, aside from fatalities. Child neglect, domestic violence, productivity in the workforce etc. etc...

    I think you make a good point when looking at the stats. If we think it is sensible to look at gun control from a public health perspective, but think that the effects of alcohol on society are a matter of personal responsibility and not to be dictated by the government, then we should look at the biases in us that lead to that conclusion.
    pgsmith likes this.
  7. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Is the death rate from alcohol in America greater then the death rate from alcohol in other countries?

    My own personal experience makes me think Americans can't hold their alcohol, so does that mean more bar fights but less deaths from liver damage.

    If drinking is bad, (which it is) does holding off drinking till 21, actually make things worse? The french introduce children to drinking super early, and yet binge drinking isn't such a problem.

    Perhaps people self medicating with alcohol is a symptom not a cause.
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
    pgsmith likes this.
  8. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Of course the US did try prohibition.

    Prohibition in the United States - Wikipedia

    Interestingly deaths from alcohol dropped as you would imagine, Iirc deaths due poisoning rose just as rapidly, I'll have to look for the stats once I'm home.

    Many states make people, wait till 21 till they can drink, perhaps considering the french do the opposite, theirs an argument that its inappropriate drinking that is the problem.
    pgsmith likes this.
  9. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    Also should take into account their drinking water in France was worse for you than wine when this practice started.
  10. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Thats true everywhere though.

    Edit and Its especially true in flint michagan today.
  11. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Wow - I must be a statistical anomaly to you guys here. As an long time American poster here, I don't feel poor, dumb, or suicidal and I seem to do all right holding my alcohol.
    aaradia, pgsmith, Mitch and 1 other person like this.
  12. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    8o9chhe0qj.jpg 8o9chhe0qj.jpg
    You do know that you can't extrapolate from a single data point right?

    Besides nobody said all Americans were poor, they said being poor and American is a problem.

    Haha, so where on the Bell curve are you?
  13. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    Not talking now, talking historically. Historically the water in the US was better due to the lack of population as compared to France of the time. It became culturally ingrained in France. As for here, blame the Puritans for messing that up
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
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  14. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    This made my day. Thank you.
  15. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

  16. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I was talking historically too, everywhere with a decent concentration of people and no sanitation had water problems. Everyone in England used to drink a weak beer called 'small beer" even the children.

    It was the same all over Europe and America too.

    Small beer - Wikipedia

    "Small beer (also known as small ale or table beer) is a lager or ale that contains a lower amount of alcohol by volume (ABV) than other beers, typically between 0.5% to 2.8%.[1][2]Sometimes unfiltered and porridge-like, it was a favored drink in Medieval Europe and colonial North America against more expensive beer with higher alcohol.[3] Small beer was also produced in households for consumption by children and servants.
    pgsmith and Xue Sheng like this.
  17. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Sorry....didn't mean to be rude about dead kids getting shot everyday.

    On one hand I was talking about America and Americans in general. You aren't the only American I've debated with on gun control over the years.

    But on the other hand you are (iirc) also one of the people that has brought up how dangerous swimming pools are and how guns can be a natural part of daily life just like in Israel (!).

    I've realised that debating gun control or the effects of guns in public life with Americans is like debating smoking with a smoker.
    You just get one long list of 'yeah buts' and 'what abouts'.

    Then I've realised, much like smokers, America is addicted to guns and pro gun people think the adverse effects of it happen to other people.

    If there's any change in the relationship between Americans and their guns in my lifetime I'll be amazed.
    It'll just be more murder, more school shootings and more empty hopes and prayers in response.

    Because ultimately, individual opinions aside, America as a whole is perfectly happy with the status quo.
    Southpaw535 and Dead_pool like this.
  18. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Again, I didn't talk about legislative policy because this was a thread about statistics and relative statistical risk, not legislative policy.

    You're egregiously mischaracterizing my policy views with a mix of national stereotypes and out-of-context sentence fragments from what I'm guessing is a five year old conversation.

    My actual policy standpoint is supportive of the Czech model, not the NRA model, and that's how I vote.

    You've done a great job in reminding me why I don't spend as much time around here anymore. Thank you for that.
    Thomas likes this.
  19. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Well said. Over the past few years, this style of posting has encouraged me to step back away from being as active on this site as I used to be.
  20. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    So you prefer an echo chamber?

    Only joking, who would of thought a forum would be used for debate and a free expression of ideas, hey!

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