Capoeira Effectiveness

Discussion in 'Other Styles' started by BlueDot, Sep 14, 2012.

  1. Anarch

    Anarch Valued Member

    And what exactly is the difference between those styles?
     
  2. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

  3. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    It's pretty accurate, I'd say. Though my group descends from Mestre Pastinha's lineage, he wasn't the only preserver of the heritage of capoeira, though he was certainly was an important figure in preserving it.
     
  4. Anarch

    Anarch Valued Member

    Awesome, although it sounds like I would enjoy agola more just because of this: "Very loose and improvisational ginga.", but either way it should be fun. And one other thing. What's a good book to check out so I can practice at home as well since I'll probably only going at most once a week?
     
  5. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    None of the books I've seen are that good as the photographs just don't give you the full idea of how to move into and out of position. Moreover, the biggest missing element is how to use a movement/technique in relation to the other person. I've seen breakdancers who could do moves far better than I can who didn't seem to know how to use the movements and were therefore near clueless in the roda.

    You could look at video of movements that your instructor has shown you to improve how well you 'capture' the look of the movement, but you may be missing the defensive elements of the position as well as its relationship to what you'll do next (whether attacking, defending, whatever).
     
  6. Lad_Gorg

    Lad_Gorg Valued Member

    Having checked my definitions again, it appears that I practiced Contemporânea and not Regional as I previously thought :S

    If Dormindo is correct than I can share some of my experiences. Contemporânea has some good and some bad.
    One of the main "bad" things is that it's a modern (maybe progressive/evolving would be a better term:thinking:) form of Capoeira and so it's the more acrobatic of the three styles. From my experience though the acrobatic techniques aren't generally taught as part of the syllabubs, and are mostly used in the roda by those that are able; which is fair since certain people with certain body types aren't able to perform backflips and some of us just don't want to learn them :p. Also there is sort of an expectation put on the student to learn to play the music during the roda, which is something you may or may not want to learn. Some people also say there is more of a focus on the "display" purpose rather than the practical (this was not my experience though).

    Some of the good. This style infuses a lot of Angola and Regional, which gives you a taste of these other styles. Generally during roda you would warm up with Angola style (slowish with heavy focus on ground work and less use of ginga), then speed up with Regional (mostly upright moderate ginga speed not flashy techniques), then go full speed with Contemporânea (the whole she-bang), and then slow down with Angola again. Another great thing is the Batizado itself, generally they provide you with a few days of workshops where a group of mestres come and visit your group. The wealth of knowledge is mind boggling, not to mention you'll get a nice work-out (considering that it's two whole days of Capoeira xD). It's a very eclectic style which allows a huge window for experimentation (I'm sure that Angola and Regional are the same).

    At any rate I hope you enjoy your practicing. I look forwards to hearing how your training goes, and also feel free to ask me any questions I will try and help where I can. :)
     
  7. Lad_Gorg

    Lad_Gorg Valued Member

    This is all Capoeira! It's amazingly eclectic.

    Capoeira is the one MA that I can think of that can not be supplemented with book studying. Capoeira is more of a feeling (as cliche as that sounds) than a scientific set of movements (such as Karate or TKD). The only thing that you should supplement your training with is copious amounts of home practice, which you'll naturally want to do anyway :p.
     
  8. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    That sounds about right for contemporanea from my observations on the outside.

    Lad, did you ever get to play people from out of town groups at the batizados and, if so, how did find it? How did they differ from what you accustomed to seeing in your own group?
     
  9. Anarch

    Anarch Valued Member


    That makes me feel a lot better about it, then. It seems like everyone has their own style as opposed to a more systemized style.. which I love because that makes it easier to blend with other arts and customize it accordingly.
     
  10. Lad_Gorg

    Lad_Gorg Valued Member

    Sadly I grew up on a Caribbean island (St.Maarten if you're interested), so there was only the one Capoeira club so we rarely had exchange (similar limits with my TKD and MT training).

    But I managed to enter the Roda with a few of the mestres during the workshops, as well as a few of their students that came along for the trip. The mestres naturally kicked my butt in just about every sense xD. We had a nice mix of Angola, Regional and Contemporanea mestres, it was nice to see masters in each respective style. I can't remember whether there was ever a roda Angola vs. Regional though :S It's been a couple of years!

    Generally I found that there was a surprising amount of "in group variation", by that I mean everybody in the club sort of developed their own styles and preferred group of techniques and strategies. And this is a similar experience to what I saw when outsiders visited us.
     
  11. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    Ahhh, that sucks, then (not having many other groups around, that is).

    As for in group variation, yeah that's throughout capoeira. In my own group nobody plays the same or even gingas the same at all. My wife joined our group a few years ago and I've been pretty much her only instructor and she does absolutely nothing the same as I do--and she has a nice game.
     
  12. Malandr-oh!

    Malandr-oh! New Member

    Hi Everyone! This is my first time posting on this forum, so please be nice. I have a diverse MA background (Kung Fu, TKD (ITF, WTF, JR) , MMA (Yudansha), MCMAP and Capoeira Angola and currently Contemporeana. I like to blend all the things I've learned from all my styles together when sparring outside of class. From my experience, you cannot directly use what you do in the roda against a standard TMA or MMA fighter.

    However, there is a place for capoeira, even the ginga. The fundamentals of capoeira give an advantage to the practitioner that some will never learn without the same training. Such as using your opponents attack and flowing with it without blocking (the major difference between other freeform styles) to make a counterattack. The constant shift of evasion and attacking learned in angola makes a person impossible to predict. Many people who have not done capoeira, or only a short period of time, think that the ginga is a static position where you simply just sway side to side. This is not correct. An experienced capoeirstas ginga is constant movement, it has hops, skips, delays, spins, and is difficult to read even by the average student.

    I feel the biggest take away from capoeira training isnt the attacks, it's the mentality. You will see angles and avenues of attack invisible to other people. You can float and slip attacks effortlessly that other people would try to block, and lose momentum. Supplement this skill set with whatever striking/grappling art you desire, and you will be a believer too.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2013
  13. grou

    grou New Member

    always see serious misconceptions in the view of many people who are unaware about the "fight" called capoeira. try to explain: Yes, it is a struggle and Brazilian. was created by slaves to practice it had to fade it in dance form and so dirversos incorporate other rituals of African mother culture. trained in capoeira classes "always" blows all individually, which are many, usually with their feet for so required at the time, since slaves were almost always hand tied, but we actually have several types of punches and fixed ( many of them also using the legs), notice that the punches of capoeira can come mostly with hand together to settle the stomach, which is convenient for someone to hand tied, but the incorporation of dance is a tradition that we do not leave after a section of the workout is that strokes do the wheel, a ritual demonstrations where they enter many stunts, all with specific goals return strokes, quick return of falls, elusive and, among others, to encourage fitness and quick thinking accompanying the movements are always very quick, obviously in a fight such ritual dances are expendable, I think this is what confuses most external looks for failing to divide the two actions, see, eg, when a capoeirista sends a coup and a fighter from another area says that just because he won fled his rule or used blow another art, not how it happens, the case is that to outsiders this is weird, but that's exactly how it works. of the possible advantages and disadvantages, they exist in all the arts (I've done capoeira, judo and boxing) for all they cherish, admire and judo punches but capoeira has some advantages that are unique, on the one hand the capoeiristas tend to tire more and give vent in many cases, on the other hand, is part of capoeira use trickery, deceiving the opponent (in this case the swing dance befitting a lot, even helps pack the kicks that become stronger for it) blows unconventional catch the opponent in unusual circumstances and avoid long approach shots (it's a fight expansion of long strokes), the capoeirista has also developed the ability to give several sharp blows consecutively and repair that usually leave fine of falls (up to fast or get off the ground with another hit). EFIM new watch MMA fights and see with their own eyes, are not strokes of luck, everything is exactly like being an art and very useful for new and unconventional way has given results, moreover, is always a pleasure to train skills with dance music and joy, think perfect, sorry for those who can not understand. Axé and much peace for all
     
  14. grou

    grou New Member

    I would like to put here some questions pertinetes about capoeira ginga and I agree with much of what has been said here about the faults that we have defense, perhaps this is one of the weakest points in a sense, certain defenses, but must be interpreted logic of this fight differs from virtually all other, which raises questions about the effectiveness of the method is precisely the peculiarity and contradiction. an example of good and bad: while another fighter maintains the closed guard he is much more protected than a capoeirista alternating hands, however, the logic of capoeira is being evasive leaving even more open guard, on the other hand it also facilitates escape and poultry logic strikes grounded on leaks fast enough with entries alternating blows, makes the game less predictable, it is necessary to study the struggle for better endender these leaks (our defense mode is different) and it is quite possible thus other fighter take this situation very well, however, we are aware of it, is part of the struggle and becomes an element of surprise, the swing can be tiring, but in times of struggle it only needs to be used little, or goal to confuse even annoying the opponent, breaking his concentration, sometimes leaving you confident or she is removed in favor or in exchange of blows (is reason to laugh, but some funny looks in the fight can be advantage for us here in Brazil do not see this grace, despite entering the roda laughing, is for another reason, the workout wheel is a part of the fun), note that the alternation of strokes follows often a contradictory movement, when it seems that you should go one side goes to another training wheel you have this condition for the possibility of torsion grid repertoire of possibilities, as I did judo, I can say this: I think judo exelente a judo wrestler takes an opponent to the ground less prepared very easily, however the linearity common in almost all the fights can also be very tiring and as predictable as straight movement, the struggles often work with tension (even in judo, who knows very well seize the opponent's strength in his favor, but is tense), unlike the roost in this logic, which seems very tiring for those who do not know the style is much less demonstrating, flee all the time the blows I think that tension less tiring to hold the opponent ( I was exhausted in judo, is less aerobic respiration). recognize the failures of our struggle and the advantages of others, we can not only confuse things, one thing is to be struggling with it, is another dance enjoy all the culture around it and understand that at times we are keen to preserve the artistic it is very good to play with friends acrobatics, dance and sing, things are a part, but they help a lot in reasoning, spatial awareness and balance, so it is crucial the process of heating, train blows in isolation, starting a wheel short (it can be styled Angola and its other variants often useful, although Angola be more than usual token), then enter the regional wheel trains where the conditioning and concentration, then a tumbling drums, workout with typical weapons (bats, faction and razor) and end a conversation about possibilities of struggle. Capoeira is well. sorry for bad english.
     
  15. grou

    grou New Member

    Maculelê de facão
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwOeIjOAK2c&hd=1"]09/05/09 CAPOEIRA MESTRE JOMAR (BRASÃLIA) - MUSEU DA REPÚBLICA (PARTE 5 - MACULELÊ C/ FACÃO) - YouTube[/ame]
     
  16. grou

    grou New Member

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2oqh0DqCas&hd=1"]Madame Satã (Trailer) - YouTube[/ame]
     
  17. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    Grou, while Madame Sata is an excellent piece of cinema and has some of the most realistic examples of capoeira in terms of fight applications, there is a problem with referring to the film and the legend of Besouro as evidence of capoeira's effectiveness as a fight (if that is what you're doing--I admit that I could be misunderstanding you). Also, some of the history you relate in your first post is inaccurate about capoeira's origins and even slavery (slaves did not have their hands bound that often--in any of the major plantation, urban or mining areas; it was more common for them to have feet bound). With that said, what, in your personal experience, makes capoeira seem an effective martial art?
     
  18. grou

    grou New Member

    um mal exemplode capoeira, kkkkk:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmdKefvXYto&hd=1"]Capoeira Fail - YouTube[/ame]
     
  19. Simon

    Simon Moved on. Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    grou, this is an English language forum.
     
  20. grou

    grou New Member

    a good example of how capoeira culture and friendship among practitioners:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIkrj9aswkM&hd=1"]Professor ensina e luta capoeira para aluno deficiente - YouTube[/ame]
     

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