Ok... based on Yohan the man's post... where he referenced Buk Sing and some blood letting and head bashing that can be found with small effort... I've looked some up on YouTube (Master Lacey mostly). From what I understand it is one of the styles/schools in the CLF side of things with it's roots in Shaolin(?).... Can someone give me the low down on Buk Sing... History? Lineage? Opinion? Popularity? Style (internal/external)? Technique (punches/kicks/elbows/locks/shoots) Sport aspect? General training methodology? Noted instructors? Thanks in advance.
There are a couple of guys on here that are of the Buk sing Fam. So they will have the goods. But from my obsevations and conversations I've had with some is that it's a branch of CLF that was created by Tarm Sam who developed a less forms, more drills and fighting aspect of CLF. The other branches, Chan Family and Hung Sing both have more forms. Chan and Hung Sing having maybe more of the internal aspect of things. As demoed by the Lacy's, It can be appllied in a San Shou/Sa Da type scenario. Buk sing like the other branches has the ten clf seeds. It's just the way they apply it which I believe is different. It is a Southern Siu Lam based art. But the art itself has the Northern kicks. Gary Shambrooke, Effegy and even Sifu Ben could be more qualified to answer some of the other questions. Hope that helps a little though Slip. Peace.
Well for Bak Sing history you have this: Tam Sam, the founder of the Bak Sing Branch of Choi Lee Fut kung fu was born in the district of Kaiping in Hoiping county in Guangdong province. He first learned Hung Gar Kuen with Yuan Tai in Kongmen. Then he joined Lui Chan, a student of Cheung Yim (Jeong Hung Sing) learning Hung Sing Choi Lee Fut. Tam Sam had a natural ability as a great fighter. Because of his constant sparring and challenge matches he became very well known and respected. One day he had an argument with three brothers while his Master Lui Charn was away, defeating all three of them. The three were his Masters junior colleagues (kung fu Uncles) so when his Master learned of this incident he had no choice but to expel Tam Sam With Tam Sam's notorious reputation, he decided to leave his masters gwoon and travel North to a district of Guangzhou Province called Siu Bak (Little North). It was there at Sui Bak that he established a school which he named Siu Bak Hung Sing Choi Lee Fut Gwoon which was to become a second branch of the Choi Lay Fut system. It was during this period in Guangzhou that Tam Sam encountered one of the famed Five Tigers of Northern China, a Bak Siu Lum (Northern Shaolin) Master by the name of Ku Yu Cheung. It was not long before Tam Sam challenged Ku to a match of skill. They fought to a tie without either one getting the upper hand and later after the fight they became firm friends, and eventually agreed in an exchange of their martial arts knowledge. According to some sauces, with Tam Sam being more interested in the fighting aspects of Choi Lee Fut rather than forms practice and the internal side of the style. Emphasis was thus placed on application and learning through actual Fighting and sparring. It was also said, because Tam Sam did not stay long enough under his Hung Sing sifu to have learned many of the Hung Sing forms. This, in combination with emphasis on fighting, left Bak Sing Choi Lee Fut with a legacy of but a few patterns as the foundation for forms within the Bak Sing branch of Choi Lee Fut. There are a few Bak Sing lineages coming from Tam Sam with the Lacey Brothers of the Lai Hung lineage seeming to be the more prominent on the net & in the media.
I can't say much on history or lineage, but all you have to do is look at their numerous clips to form an opinion. They've got a few gong sau clips out there with their guys smashing folks up. They've got several sports clips where they enter high contact competitions and do quite well. I can't speak for their popularity. It doesn't seem to be terribly popular, like most high contact traditional styles. Their techniques seem to be relegated to standup striking - mostly kicks and punches, but undoubtedly have elbows, knees, and some standing locks and throws. I don't think they focus on the sporting aspect, but it's definitely part of their style as they've had some success in competition. Grandmaster Lacey and his son are well known instructors. Beyond that I don't know too much about them, except that I have a fair bit of respect for the guys because they are out there busting people up, and you just don't see that in Kung Fu these days.
Bsclf Buck Sing Choy Lay Fut is a very hard style to train in. What was drummed into my head was you must be super fit physical fitness was a big part of training. Repitition of technique over and over again, practice practice practice. You must spar every night with light gloves we used fingerless ones. I was told if it stops hurting then you are not training hard enough. I went home every night with bruises i was sore every day. Training techniques with weights. Two man training very big as well as body conditioning, three star hit thigh kicks stomach kicks etc, some people train extra for competitions we did that every night and there is only one way to find out if you can really use it and that is to go out into the street and really use it so every weekend we did just that. Having said that ive seen alot of people get into trouble for doing so, i dont think like that anymore but it teaches you a whole lot about what really works and what does not. The idea is to take the other person out not to hold back attack attack attack, pull no punches. Again having said that one of my sihings was from singapore and no one could touch him his dogging techniques were outstanding.
Stan Collymore is an English footballer-turned actor who had an "indescretion" in a car park: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_Collymore Scroll down to the controversy and infamy section at the bottom, and you will see why your typo was so funny.
Yes i see bit off a stuff up that one. Funny, to be totaly honest i could check my spelling but iy takes to long. I think most people get what i mean anyway think of it like this i made someone laugh for a change.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHqlt_Cd9p4"]Buk Sing Choy Lay Fut Fremont #10 - YouTube[/ame] Check out this video. There's a Gong Sau starting around 2:15 with one of the Buk Sing guys looking like an experienced fighter.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcH0FC4Xihk&feature=related"]Buk Sing Choy Lay Fut Fremont #7 - YouTube[/ame] Here's another one. Real nice bouts between Hung Sing (another hard ass CLF branch) vs. Buk Sing. The Buk Sing guys showing some real experience and skill.
I most likely am showing my ignorance more than anything else, but am I the only one thinking "So they brought the kicks, but I wonder why they left their stances, hand techniques, and body movement techniques in the other gym bag they left at home..." while viewing the first clip?
Bsclf Im a bit confused at what you mean but this is not my school my master was david lacey. From what i have seen there is a slight differance.
Thanks for posting those up bro... always good to see this type of footage. About as far away from the normal droll KF footage that we see posted up as you can get. Interesting. I guess I'm curious why it seems that all of the 'technique' that we normally associate with KF seems to go out the window once the gloves are strapped on. Maybe the principles still exist and are used... but it always seems to me that generally what we see once the gloves are on is a far cry from the crisp, clean and decisive posturings that we see when forms and whatnot are being trained. It does come off as essentially... kickboxing... complete with the foam booties (note that I haven't had a chance to watch the 2nd vid posted though). Now like Bronze Statue mentions... that might be more my ignorance than anything else. But I suspect that much of it also comes down to the fact that there are only so many ways to effectively punch/kick/clinch a human being. In particular one thing that comes loud and and clear is the low guards, lack of committed low kicks and lack of attacks on angles. I'm not entirely sure that's just limited to the vids shown... we can see that in many other styles as well... but it strikes me that much more being that usually KF is on so much about form and style to point of almost being dogmatic... and then when they step into the leather... it simply doesn't show. Whereas with boxers and nak muays - what we seeing be drilled in training is generally what we see when the leather starts to fly. I'm curious why the disparity? I felt pretty much the same. I don't think it's really all that outrageous of an observation to be honest. I wasn't quite sure what to make of all the bluesman down at the crossroads bits attached to the vids though. A surreal mix of Chinese KF and awkward blues covers.
Bsclf Let me just say before i start that all coments are right. When you put gloves on and shin guards and mouth guards and head guards. I takes the Kung Fu out of Kung Fu. I haved spard without gloves many times so dodging and blocking are the maine practiced techniques. If you connected the same without the gloves as you would with them then-take a wild guess.
Bsclf I you hit someone with a full on charp choy or sow choy it is a serious punch or strike, it will hurt cause maximum damadge. When you use gloves all martial arts becomes kick boxing. it has rules Kung Fu real street fighting dose not. sparing is sparing, real fighting is not.
I highly recommend you go back and watch this video - it's one the best ones I've seen so far. As the videos get later and later, their students get better and better. They have tighter game, they keep their hands up, they throw low kick (nice ones too). You I know all those crazy haymaker swingy punches look crazy, but that's what it's like in CLF. Look at their forms, they use those big crazy swooping strikes, and that's what's in their kickboxing. They are actually taking stuff out of their forms and using it, which you don't see in 95% of Kung Fu. I seriously think these guys are the cream of the crop in Kung Fu. Vince Lacey is one of the only legitimate CMA grandmasters out there, which I think is saying something. They are improving the style in the fighting department all the time, their forms look sharp, they are obviously cross training. Shane Lacey (grandmasters son and probably the next system holder - speculation on my part) has obviously cross trained in some Muay Thai, and I'm sure he's used it to improve his own fighting stuff. I likes them.
Bsclf Are you talking to me man. I am A student and si hing and di si hing of the Choy Lay Fut Buck Sing Gwoon my masters master was Gong Hing my martial arts training comes directly from the line of TARM SARM. I have the most upmost respect for these people. Who are you.
I'm John Davenport. I know you took from the Lacey's. I'm not talking directly to you. I just think the Buk Sing Kung Fu is good.
