Banning Swords in Scotland!!

Discussion in 'Western Martial Arts' started by Louie, Nov 24, 2004.

  1. Lithanwif

    Lithanwif Human Punchbag

    This is my ned name apparently.
    My korean name is ' he who blocks with his face'
    My japanese name ' he who kiais well, but goes down like a sack of potatoes'
    and of course my thai name ' he whos knee bends at the wrong angle after taking a mighty kick...ooh that looks painul. That'll need pins that. Years of Physio.....etc.etc.'
  2. Ghost Frog

    Ghost Frog New Member

    :D :D :D My favourite block the face block. Closely followed by the rib block.
  3. Jason Simpson

    Jason Simpson New Member

    I also think this is a stupid law. Surely it wasn't legal to walk through the middle of town with a claymore strapped to your back? This guys just trying to make a name for himself. Off with his head!!!!
  4. Lithanwif

    Lithanwif Human Punchbag

    Nah my mates got that one broken ribs, no muscle damage. Collapsed lung and blood clot.
    Jeez didn't hit him that hard. Must be my Dim Mak technique vibrating through his body towards the lung bypassing all else.
  5. Ghost Frog

    Ghost Frog New Member

    It is enlightening to be in the presence of a true master.[​IMG]
  6. Lithanwif

    Lithanwif Human Punchbag

    You must be enlightened young one.
    think perhaps I should start to walk with a stick and grow my goattee long and white?
    Then I'd get the respect I deserve dammit.
  7. Lucius

    Lucius Valued Member

    Only as long as sleekit wee Jack McConnell hasn't seen fit to ban sticks, of course!
  8. Lurch

    Lurch Angry Kid

    As far as banning swords and knioves goes, it'll just lead to more of them being n the hands of the wrong people. Same thing happened with handguns when they were banned. Many gun owners held, say, two registered weapons. But many held maybe one or two more they'd bought off the books from another member of their gun club or whatever and hadn't got araoud to registering.

    Then the ban comes into effect, and your man has a couple of grands worth of firearm he is now required to hand in - add to that the awkward questions he'd face regarding those unregistered guns. Bloke down the pub offers £500 for the two off the record guns, and on they go into the hands of people who really shouldn't have them.

    Ban knives and swords, and something similar will happen. Would you hand in a decent samurai that had cost you the best part of £1000 if you'll not be reimbursed? There's many that won't.
  9. Wynnston

    Wynnston Member

    Slash and burn

    Can't you guy's see it? This is the start of a big change and Jack is a real visionary.

    After knives and smoking I think he should concentrate on the biggest killers in Scotland. Heart attacks and car accidents. Banning hearts would be a significant step toward making Scotland a safer place and removing people's hearts would be a pre-emptive strike at this killer disease. Outlawing cars would also be another massive leap toward increasing the lifespan of Scots and anyone seen in a car should be arrested immediately by mounted police armed with biodegradeable truncheons made from compressed cow dung and nettle flax.

    What a guy.

  10. JamesyBHOY

    JamesyBHOY New Member

    The problem is something has go to give, All you read in the papers almost on a daily basis is Males aged 16 & a little bit older either being murdered or doing the murdering.

    This summs up soceity today when my little cousin who is only 14 told her mother a couple of weeks back that she can't wait till she grows up as she is going to marry a gangster(Her father thinks he's a bit of a hardnut, So when he takes her for the weekends, It's obviously starting to rub off on her).

    Knives are the primary weapons that are used in murders in Scotland(I also expect it will be the same in the rest of the UK), I'm all for a public ban on the sale of weapons but simply don't care for one reason & that's they will never be able to enforce it, Without stopping every ned in the country & frisking them at every corner, + they would need to start a new big brother prog to monitor all their calls + internet activities which is impossible, So what really should be done is get all those police who sit on their fat arses all day on the streets, My local police station is around a mile from my house,2 corners & a long straight road and that's it, it only takes a minute in a car, Last weekend about 8/10 little punks started fighting outside my moums house, SO she lives alone & they come in the gate, Go round the back & take the washing poles, So it's around 12.30am and I'm up the city centre at work, I get a call from my girlfriend whom my mum phoned panicking, as the local police station was engaged & she got held in a queue, I actually got there before the police & it took me around 15 minutes, then 5 mins after that a man & a woman come in and get the details, Jump in the car drive around the corner, then up & down the street & that's it away they go again.

    When you go into the police station there's always one guy sitting at the desk & the rest of the chumps are in the back playing snooker.

    So the public can't rely on the law for help, So the only logical way to drastically cut back on the amound of murders using weapons is to deal tougher sentences to the users, Such as you get someone any age/Male or female who commits a cold blooded murder, presently gets a life sentence which is around 10 years + all the fringe benefits like appeals, culpable homicide,diminished responsability,good behaviour etc etc & youy can pretty much guarantee a few years chalked off that. I know pretty much everyone who replies after this will say it's wrong for so many reasons, but I would bring back the death penalty & hang them in the streets like the old days if it could be proven without absolute doubt that they were guilty & I would do away with all those young offenders institutes which have playstation 2,sky,swimming pools,Holidays,presents & bring back old fashioned borstals.I wasn't around in those days but my uncles tell me how bad it was & it put them on the straight & narrow.

    Anything less such as better education in schools etc, is simply just a waste of taxpayers money.
  11. Jimmy Jitsu

    Jimmy Jitsu Valued Member

    I am against banning knives as it will be impossible to enforce. However, I strongly believe there should be stronger sentences I am one that where 1st degree murder has been commited life should mean life. With regards to teenage assault crimes I think the lash would be a good deterrent.
  12. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    As to the first, yes we are. Everyone with a weapon is irresponsible. Every last one of us. And every weapon leads to the death of innocent people, particularly children. The only possible way on God's green earth to protect children and other innocent people from death by people who have weapons, is to take away weapons from you and me. It doesn't matter that you and I have never committed a crime with our weapons. Our innocence is irrelevant. I know this is so because people told me so in another thread.

    As to the second, it will stop crime and violence. If you and I turn in our weapons, then the scumbags won't have weapons either, and then nobody will use a weapon, and children won't accidentally get weapons. I know this is true because people told me so in another thread.

    [change of brain]
    Okay, being irrational was fun. Now back to being rational.

    Correct. So now, we have some people saying, "I know what the solution to the problem is, but I don't want to actually implement it. I'd rather put on a public show of covering up one symptom than actually do what has to be done to solve the cause of this symptom. And yes, I know that this solution is not a solution to the symptom, but I'm going to do it anyway, for show."

    That's a bad attitude.

    And then we have some people saying, "The problem is we didn't raise up the next generation with responsibility and discernment of right versus wrong. As a consequence they're doing a lot of bad things and hurting a lot of people. Let's fix that problem at the source by teaching responsibility and right versus wrong."

    That's a good attitude, and it's the only solution. Anything less does not solve the problem and always works to punish innocent people.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2004
  13. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    I agree with your point, but could you tell us how you think things should be changed to do this? I mean, do you see it simply in terms of parents' responsibility to teach their kids decent values? Or are you talking about the government taking steps to educate kids rather than just passing more laws to tackle a problem which has already taken root?
  14. Stephen Hand

    Stephen Hand New Member


    I'm one of the moderators of the legal issues forum over on swordforum and I heard that people were discussing the proposed sword ban here. I'm also Chairman of the Australian Historical Swordplay Federation and I've been battling plans to introduce this sort of legislation in Australia (which has a very similar system of government to Scotland). I have learned a lot about how to deal with politicians and the media. Here's what I wrote on SFI. I hope it helps.

    OK, after nearly two years of playing these games with politicians and bureaucrats in Australia I have the following advice.

    1. This is a public relations and media exercise. If you for one moment think it has anything to do with logic or justice, you're doomed.

    2. Be scrupulously polite. The best way to get a politician to do exactly the opposite of what you want is to abuse him or seem overly aggressive.

    3. At all costs avoid talking about swords as if they were weapons. For the purposes of this exercise swords are not weapons, they are an item of Scottish cultural heritage used by hundreds of thousands of law abiding citizens for purposes nothing to do with their use as weapons.

    4. Mention where possible groups so innocuous that they couldn't possibly be associated with violent crime. The ones I've found work best are Highland dancers (particularly appropriate here) and people performing the plays of Shakespeare. Avoid if possible talking about martial arts groups as mention of them will reinforce the idea that a sword is a weapon, and hence something that the public should be scared of.

    5. Mention where possible financial benefit (both direct and indirect - tourism dollars spring to mind in the latter category) that comes from sword related activities.

    6. Politicians live and die by media soundbites. They can only seriously be combatted with the same. Media soundbites must go for the emotional jugular. Lines like "Does the Minister seriously believe that banning Highland Dancing and the plays of Shakespeare will make Scotland a safer place" or "The Minister's proposed ban on swords is an attack at the very heart of Scottish heritage and would outlaw highland dancing, the plays of Shakespeare and re-enactments of William Wallace and Robert the Bruce" are good. Lines like "hardly any people are killed with swords" or "there are many weapons more dangerous than swords" are an unmitigated disaster.

    7. Find out where formal submissions on the legislation should be sent and circulate that to as many people as possible with this same advice. Formal submissions can contain more logical arguments, but overemphasise the arts (plays and dance) and underemphasise martial use. I particularly think it's important to contact the highland dancers and get them to kick up a fuss. This was the single best avenue of attack we found in Australia, and there must be more highland dancers in Scotland. Try to show the politicians that there's overwhelming public opposition to this law.

    8. Try to find a reputable political party (Tories spring to mind) who will help you oppose this law. They will know what works politically, know how to handle the media etc, but be careful, politicians will drop you in an instant if they think you're a liability or there's a better cause.

    If anyone in Scotland needs any help with submissions etc. please contact me. I've learned a lot about how to deal with politicians in the last two years (much more than I wanted to know) and we have an opportunity to use the Australian experience to help our Scottish brothers. I've already forwarded copies of relevant documents I sent to politicians and bureaucrats over here, to Ian McIntyre and Paul McDonald.

    I hope this helps.
  15. Rob Lovett

    Rob Lovett Valued Member

    Hi all,

    The BFHS are also involved in looking at this issue. There is a lot of rumour abounding concerning this issue, so I would advise anyone looking to get involved to make sure of their facts and look into the sources of this threat first.

  16. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Parents first and always and continuously.
    At the same time, parents should be influencing the actions and programs of government. The government is not a separate "thing." It is a group of people. Let's treat it as such. There is no possible way that that group of people called the government knows more about my life than my family, my neighbors, my friends, and I know about my life. Consequently, the government should not be taking control.
  17. Lithanwif

    Lithanwif Human Punchbag

    Hey, I already quit swords and my collection of classic gas guzzlers are the only things stopping me lighting back up.
    That and the fact if I was to restart my wife and my two kids would take turns hitting me with aforementioned swords, and if she could manage it the car.
    Personally I think they should ban burberry, as every time I see someone wearing it in cap form I have to fight the desire to choke the life from them.
  18. Lithanwif

    Lithanwif Human Punchbag

    Shows you arent in this country mate, we arent allowed to mention tory party above the border. damn now they'll be queued up outside my house with the burning torches and the pitchforks because I mentioned them. they're a lot more dangerous than swords.

    Of course the worry is that if we stand up, holding a sword and say 'From my cold dead figners' we become identified with those nutters over the pond.

    Or maybe we are. After all, do we really need live weapons? we could train without them really couldnt we? It wouldnt be the same though. And no matter how long Ive asked for one, no one has made me a rubber version of a balisong.
  19. Slindsay

    Slindsay All violence is necessary

    At first I agreed witht he people saying what a ridiculous law this is but then I realised that if in twenty years time it saves just one life it will be worth it. We can still practice with imitation weapons and to be honest we should probably all get "walking sticks" and put in some practice with them rather than swords, far more realistic a self defence weapon.

    Nunchucks though are a different matter, they are not dangerous! How can anyone say nunchucks are dangerous, I own a pair of nunchucks and fun though they are can anyone explian how they are more dangerous than an 8 inch razor sharp kitchen knife in a bar brawl?
  20. Lithanwif

    Lithanwif Human Punchbag

    I think the point they have there is that the knife is a tool and has another, original purpose.
    Nunchuks are nunchuks and are designed for wopping peeps. No matter how many 'acrobats' there are

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