Articles on knife lies

If he's saying at the end of the day, under his system, it's easier to defend against knife attacks than under a Filipino system, it doesn't say much for the knife-wielding parts of what he teaches.


All other things being equal, under any system if the guy with the knife doesn't win then he's doing something very wrong.

 

nver a true'er word has been said.

Well said that man.

Best regards

Pat

 

Hello Medi
I apologise if I seemed to be misleading to you and no doubt others.
I went back and looked over the Quote you singled out:

''US army psychological research done on soldiers who took part in the D-Day Landings of World War 2 found that only two soldiers in a hundred shot at the enemy to kill. The other 98 did not. They shot towards the enemy, carried equipment and vital supplies,etc.''

I find I must bow to your wisdom.
The research data mentioned in the quote was compiled in 1947 by a retired U.S. General by the name of S.L. Marshall. He found that around 25% shot towards the enemy and only 2% shot to kill.
However his research refers to a much bigger area than Normandy Landings and deals with the effects of war on troops in the Pacific area during WW2.
His findings caused a stir in the U.S. military. The U.S. army adopted his improved training methods and the infantry kill rate increased to 50% by the time of the Korean War.

I apologise, I mixed up his findings with the Normandy D. Day material that was collected by Psychologists Swank and Marshan who did seperate research in 1947 into the the effects that the horror of sixty days of continous fighting had on the soldiers who were at the Normandy Landings. They found that 98% of those who were in battle conditions for two months suffered from the stress of battle and were unfit for duty.

Those of you that would like to find out more about where I got the information for my previous write up can find most of the information in the excellent Channel 4 documentary ''The Truth About Killing'' presented by Grub Smith which was shown on National Geographic Channel in Ireland and the Britain recently during the V.J. rememberance week.

For those who cannot access the video similiar information can be found on the articles on these websites.
'The Price of Valour' article by Dan Baum on WWW.Lysistratproject.org/veterans

'The Truth About Killing' an article by Dr. Martin Brookes
WWW.Channel4.com/science

Or in the books,
'Men Against Fire' by General S.L. Marshall
&
'On Killing' By Dave Grossman
(Professor of Military Science)

Slainte = Irish for 'Good Health'
Brian Moloney

 

Time to recommend Grossman again...

Lt. Col. David Grossman , formerly of the US Army Rangers, spent much of his career working on military training doctrine. Many of his insights and the results of his research can be found in the excellent book "On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society ".

 

folks that are taken seriously, but i suspect of doing this:

Chris Sayoc
Carl Atienza
Vladimir Vasiliev & Mikhail Ryabko
Marc McYoung

there are more...

 

It should also be noted that much of Samuel Lyman Atwood "Slam" Marshall's work has been either called into question or outrightly discredited over the last two decades. The wiki page on him has a good summary - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._L._A._Marshall

Basically both academic researchers and personal aquaintances have called his data gathering and analysis methods into question (for more on the specifics visit - http://www.warchronicle.com/us/combat_historians_wwii/marshallfire.htm). So that isn't the best statistic to throw around any more.

As far as Sayoc, at least in his youth, he put the time in and trained with and learned from the best.

- Matt

 

I met Chris Sayoc in 1992 and I was impressed with him then. Vladimir and Mikhail I haven't heard of and the other two I have heard good things about, but never met them.

If someone says something, true or not, they have to proove to people that it works in a real life situation, if they can do that enough said.

Best regards

Pat

 

Interesting. Would you mind elaborating on exactly why you suspect Tuhon Chris Sayoc and The Atienzas of doing this?

B.J. Stone

 

ok. mind you, i'm not saying they are bad or unskilled people, i just suspect them of spreading fantasy tales about themselves.

chris sayoc:

Christopher Sayoc is a world renowned expert in edged weapons and tactics.His families ancestry in the Filipino Martial Arts can be traced back over 5 generations! But it is not just his Sayoc lineage that makes him a true virtuoso in the Filipino martial arts.From the age of 3 ,Tuhon Sayoc had a facination with knives.As a child of 6 years old,he had begun to exoperiment with projectile weaponry.He was already familiar with both the spin and the flight trajectory patterns that different weapons produced.By the age of 12,he was already training and engaging in live weapon drills with,at that time were considered the world's leading Filipino experts in edged weaponry.AT AGE 15 ,TUHON SAYOC HAD ALREADY COMBAT TESTED HIS TRAINING IN NUMEROUS LIVE BLADE CONFRONTATIONS!And, was teaching many highly experienced martial artists more than twice his age.It was in his late teens that he felt the need to bring his families art,and his own expertise to an even higher level . HE THEN CONSULTED WITH HIS UNCLE,A WELL KNOWN AND RESPECTED SECURITY CONSULTANT IN THE Philippines,WHO IS ALSO KNOWN AS ONE OF THE WORLDS LEADING EXPERTS IN THE FIELD OF SECURITY.FROM THAT POINT ONtUHON sAYOC'S LIFE WAS CHANGED FOREVER.AS AN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY OPERATIVE,HIS LIFE AND IDENTITY WERE CONCEALED EVEN FROM HIS OWN FAMILY.FOR MANY YEARS NO ONE KNEW HIS WHEREABOUTS OR OBJECTIVES.IN FACT, MANY PEOPLE DOUBTED HIS EXISTENCE AND BELIEVED HE WAS KILLED IN A FOREIGN MILITARY OPERATION. IT WAS ONLY RECENTLY THAT HE SURFACED,AND IS READY TO INTRODUCE TO THE WORLD,THE SECRETS OF HIS FAMILIES ART,SAYOC KALI.the art of the blade. A man that brings four generations worth of edged weapons knowledge to the table combined with COUNTLESS SUCCESSFUL LIVE BLADE COMPLEX ENGAGEMENTS.Come to a Sayoc Kali seminar with Tuhon Christopher Sayoc Sr ,and experience the true essence of the Philippines-land of the brave and unconquerable."


uhu


atienza:
they told us on a seminar he and his brother fought off 10 gang members at a time regularly at age 15...

uhu

 

Chris Sayoc=Martial Law terminator?

If the the time of his "disappearance" coincides with the Martial Law era in the Philippines. . . and Marcos was a big supporter of Filipino Martial Arts. . .

I'm just speculating, guys. I'd rather think that that blurb is fantasy than thinking that there is a reasonable explanation for the claim that he is a skilled knife killer.

 

Hello,

Where did you get this bio?

Thx.

 

it is from an old flyer they used to make

 

strange. not once does it mention chris sayoc teaching tae kwon do nor does it mention him studying under gt leo gaje, jr.

 

wow! :Alien:

wowowee! :woo:

 

yup, it's because it's an old flyer and people who make up stories constantly change them (matt furey )

yup, i was at a sayoc seminar and all of the sudden there was a "free" atienza demo during seminar hours...

they showed "special weapons" and all that and started telling BADASS stories, it was something like this "...remember, when we were 15 y/o or so, we used to fight off 10 people at a time...GANG PEOPLE..." i almost started rolling on the floor laughing, but had to restrain myself for personal safety. all them sayoc/atienza fan boys sat down in admiration, so i didn't want to tun them against me you know...

 

Hello Everyone,

Oh, Oh, here it comes again the evil Sayoc Kali tales, but now with a new twist the Atienza Kali side kick!

So much of the history behind Sayoc Kali has been discussed or debated that it is just too funny that Salami and Shootodog even bring it up here again. So you attended a seminar, let's be more specific 1 seminar??? and you can say and judge how and what Sayoc Kali or Atienza Kali is all about??

As for the advertisement: Let's see the real deal not newly printed or internet typed material put out by someone who has their agenda on their sleeve.

I'll rise to answer some of the points you put out here:

1) Sayoc Teaching TaekwonDo, absolutely correct! They also taught Judo, boxing and Karate styles in their public school. The private portion of their school included a large area where Filipino Arts were taught and brought to the public. It also was utilized for many Filipino cultural events. There are many photos that have masters Professer Vee, Remy Presas, Mat Marinas, Leo Gaje all in them at the Sayoc location.

2) Tuhon Sayoc never denies training with GT Gaje at anytime, but it is so interesting that the "question" continues to come up? Why is that? Tuhon Sayoc also never denies training with a variety of other FMA masters as well including the Canete family, so why isn't that a question??

3)As for "fantasy" you really should come and train with a certified Instructors, attend Sama Sama or any of the other opportunities being offered world wide and learn what Sayoc Kali or Atienza Kali is truely about.

4) I have a question to leave you both with: The questions, sniping at other arts and constant back stabbing, by anonymous phantoms perpetuated on the various outlets on the internet only hurt the spread and growth of all FMA worldwide. So why does it continue?

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

www.Sayoc.com
www.Bujinkandojo.net

 

if it isn't the internet's foremost sayoc evangelist, airyu

i won't discuss this matter with someone who obviously has an agenda

gumagalang

 

Hello Salami,

Of course you wouldn't ......(LOL)

If you have any questions please feel free to ask, I will be here to answer anything that you would like to know. (That is if I know anything!!)

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

www.Sayoc.com
www.Bujinkandojo.net

 

thje answer to that steve is that i was asking WHY SAYOC NEVER MENTIONS TAEKWONDO OR LEO GAJE IN ANY PROMOTIONAL MATERIAL? that's it. i have no contact or bone with sayoc or atienza (and i never once said anything about atienza). these are things keep coming up, even over here. thought it was a good venue to ask. look at my post very carefully. you are a guro and i am a student. i respect you.

as my one of my teachers always tells me: basta bukas ang mata mo! for as long as your eyes are wide open



gumagalang po guro!

 

As found in the media section of the Sayoc Kali Web sight
http://sayoc.com/wrapper.php?file=multimedia.php


http://sayoc.com/mpegs/sayclas01.mpg
Palarong Pilipino 1978
Pekiti-Tirsia Tournament held at the Pelota Court located on the rooftop of the Philippine Embassy in NYC. This tournament featured the Sayoc family and over 25 members of the Pekiti-Tirsia International Schools for Arnis, Inc. that was lead by Chris Sayoc. The Sayoc's were representing the PT banner and led the majority of events, seminars, training, and demonstrations during this time. The 1st place winner of this tournament was a 15 year old Chris Sayoc.

http://sayoc.com/mpegs/sayclas02.mpg
Tuhon Chris assisting Tuhon Gaje.
Pekiti-Tirsia Seminar on behalf of National Arnis Association of the Philippines (NARAPHIL). Chris Sayoc opening the seminar with the letter of authority from the Philippine government. Master Leo Gaje, the heir of Pekiti-Tirsia and commissioner to NARAPHIL introduces Eddie Jafri, an Indonesian master of Pentjak Silat opening a revival to the fighting arts of the Majapahit Empire.

http://sayoc.com/mpegs/gajepub01.wmv
This Pekiti-Tirsia footage was filmed in Flushing Meadows Park, Queens, NY circa 1975-76. The footage contains the original outline of the 36 attacks and features GT Gaje and his very first pupil. This Clip is from Tuhon's personal collection. It was transferred from Super 8 film and was in pretty bad shape. You can still see much of the action from what was recovered. This is the abbreviated clip. The full 2 minutes, 23 second clip is available in the Members Only Area.


Nope guess the Sayocs never mention it...