Ancient Hebrew biblical martial arts!

Yes really.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F9RWiu-Vik"]Introduction to Abir Martial Arts with Grandmaster Yehoshua Sofer - YouTube[/ame]

Has anyone heard about this? Are the claims about it being biblical true? If so, it would be I think one of the oldest arts around. If it's actually real, that is.

 

Being "Biblical" would make it over 2000 years old-which based on our knowledge of systems,their evolution,devolution,etc., makes such claims just silly.

So no. Here's from Wiki-

"He was born in 1958 as Nigel Wilson into a Breslover Hasidim family in Jamaica. His family moved to Los Angeles in 1963 where he studied Tang Soo Do, receiving a black belt by 1968, aged ten. He studied Kuk Sool Won from 1974, advancing to 6th dan, and worked as a trainer and bodyguard during the 1970s and 1980s."

"In 2002, he founded the Abir Warrior Arts Association of Israel, teaching his own style of "Abir-Qesheth Hebrew Warrior Arts" (אבי״ר-קשת אומנות לחימה עברית) in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, claiming an unbroken tradition dating to Israelite antiquity[1] preserved by an underground school of "Bani Abir" in Habban, "

Isn't it odd that it seems every person who comes up w/some secret/ancient/unheard of system has always studied something else?

 

It's a modern hybrid art with no actual antiquity

 

Wrestling and boxing are older. Better too, from first glance.

 

If Yehoshua Sofer looks familiar it's because he's this fellow. We could get bogged down in a discussion of ancient Hebrew history and martial arts, so while I'll point out that historically the Hebrews were very aggressive warriors and militaristic in organization even in the days of King David, I really don't think there is any historical veracity whatsoever to the claims (which if you read this article is kind of what The Times of Israel suggest). What's more likely is this fellow has trained other martial arts and is repackaging them under an orthodox cultural umbrella. Maybe some of the folks who have trained Chinese arts will recognize this 'stance' as something also in those arts, making the re-packaging theory even more probable.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/meet-y...ame-an-israeli-biblical-martial-arts-warrior/

 

The claims of Sofer go back even further brother about 3,000 years ago. While I think we can concede King David and his armies had a penchant for conquest, there's zero or quite close to zero evidence for hand to hand combat systems. Of course we can probably guess that these did exist (systems for fighting both with bare hands and with weapons), but there's simply no evidence of it, not just in the historical texts as old as 1000 BCE, but in anything else from that era (pottery, drawings, art, et cetera). I won't go all the way to suggest this Sofer fellow is being deceptive or fraudulent, but I definitely don't think he can support his claims (as the Israel Times suggest if you read between the lines of their article).

 

Here's some total garbage from his site-

"If the Israelites won countless victories over many ancient nations - the 'Amaleqites, the Cana'anites, the Ammonites, the Moavites, the Babylonians - and if hundreds of Israelites regularly defeated tens of thousands of soldiers...

How did they overcome such overwhelming odds?"

I don't recall victories in King,Judges,etc commonly being hundreds against thousands.

"Historical records tell of the Judean armed resistance against the Greek and Roman armies, attesting that they fought valiantly in wars which lasted for many years...

How did they defeat the armies of world superpowers who had conquered the entire world?"

Uhhhh..... they didn't.Period.A couple of major revolts (crushed) and some minor skirmishing over the years does not equal wars lasting many years.Judea wasn't Nam. Of course if one considers things like Masada,or Quinctilius Varus' crucifixion of 2,000 lining the road to Jerusalem after a rebellion to be victories I don't know what one can say.

As a hilarious sidelight,also from his site-

"As a teenager Sofer befriended a fellow just two years older than he whom he frequently found at a variety of schools from different fighting disciplines. The two would often show up at these venues independently at the same time. At first this caused them both suspicion that they would later overcome to be friends and allies who often watched each others backs around the globe. This fellow became international Kumite champion. This was the one and only Frank Dux whose life story was portrayed by Jean Claude Van Damme in the movie ''Bloddsport''. The two are still good friends today."

Oh boy,he and Dux "watched each others backs around the globe." Well, at least he doesn't claim to have been secretly awarded a medal by Congress.Or have a spellchecker for his site. Evidently he's not up on the fact that Dux has been totally discredited,

So at least in some things I would go so far as to say he's fraudulent.

And a surviving multi thousand year old system,what a laugh.My great-great-grandfather only invented T'ai Chi in Ireland in the early 1800s and look how much that's changed.

 

Is this guy talking about olives?? Did he really say olives? (Edit: Ooooh..Aleph!)

I think a mate of mine went to a seminar with this guy who claims to teach Razmafzar, a Persian art.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4Om4-K7WaI"]Razmafzar - Historical Persian Martial Arts - YouTube[/ame]

I am sure in the photos he showed the guy was using the guard and pretty much everything stand up looked like it had been lifted from JJ. It was all a bit dodgy.

I have to admit, it would be nice if all this stuff was legit though.

 

They had the Ark of the Covenant

 

It's the sandals. No one wins wearing sandals :evil:

 

Isn't it ironic that the Hebrew texts pretty squarely lay attribution for those victories to Yahweh (who, in the 1000 BCE era they are claiming, was considered a Warrior-God). Ironic in this case because (and I am saying this with my tongue planted in my cheek) that it's more likely that Jehovah himself conquered the enemies of the ancient Israelites, rather than Hebrew kung fu! Think about it

 

"Hebrew kung fu"? Surely its "Jew Jitsu"?

 

Does that mean if two of them have a match it's a He-brewhaha?

 

Yes...they are not known for gentile conduct

 

You guys are making me crack up but I found something I think you will find funny. I was reading this random fellow's blog about Mr. Sofer, something I had just happened to click on while googling.
http://hochmaumusar.blogspot.com/2008/08/way-of-israeli-warrior.html

That's not correct. I am fairly certain the correct translation of 'qesheth' here is literally the martial art of the bow and arrow, not ancient Hebrew fisticuffs. If you read further you find a lot of this information seems to come from Mr. Sofer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yehoshua_Sofer

 

While it's true that modern wrestling was steeped in the imagery of classical antiquity starting in the 19th Century, there's no evidence at all that it directly descends from it. Wrestling contests of some sort are super common in primate as well as human cultures, but any grappling can claim that entire lineage as truthfully as modern Freestyle or Greco-Roman.

The modern sport of boxing started in the late 17th - early 18th Century, it pretty definitely has nothing to with anything Romans, Greeks or Egyptians did that we've retroactively labelled with the same word.