Advice requested: Stay at current club or switch to another?

Hey everyone.

I’m having a little trouble to finally make up my mind, even though I think I already know, what I *should* do.
But you know – sometimes you need to hear it from another person as well, to actually be certain about something

I still consider myself to be rather new in martial arts: I started Hapkido two years ago and added JJJ and Judo afterwards.

The HKD class was the first one I ever visited and I stayed there. At that moment it was the right thing to do.

Longer version
Now I’m there for a while and start being a bit unsatisfied about some things:
- I’m still being a white belt – which wouldn’t be a problem(!), if the things you learn wouldn’t be tied to the belt levels. So I’m doing the same stuff, which isn’t much, for those past two years. (I’m really good with them at least and get to teach them to new students in the beginning. I also was about to get graded last December, but got excluded 5 minutes prior, which wasn’t great but I understood why. The plan is, that I get graded the next time. So in their defence: They’re not trying to keep me low with all force necessary!).
- The group is getting bigger and bigger. Awesome for the club, not so good for me. Since I’m having trouble with people it’s pure stress for me and I tend to get lost in the shuffle.
- I also tend to be for myself and have trouble finding a partner, because I can’t approach people; and usually people don’t approach me (in the other clubs they do that, so I get some “starting help” there).
- There is no sparring, which I think is a shame but I’m being honest as well: I could live with that, since I’m doing it mostly for fun and learn to become a “better working” person at the moment. I’d love some Randori at least though.

What I really like about that club doesn’t seem much (but again: It’s not full of bad people):
- One of the coaches there is great (the others are okay and nice as well, even though I think one of the isn’t my biggest fan). I get a lot of feedback by him, learn a lot of theory/ mechanics of the techniques and when he says “Good!” I know it must have been good, because I don’t get that a lot from him.
- We kick a lot. We don’t do that in the other clubs; I’m not great at it, but I like doing it
- When I do have a partner I usually enjoy the part of the class , where we do techniques (still hate the warm-up though ), even though I might have had to force myself to go there.

(There probably are more points for both sides, but the text is long enough already)

Now I might have the opportunity to join another JJJ school (this teacher and my current one know each other and would both be fine with it; I asked that already) for once/ week, if I should find that the school/ people and I “click”.
I was there for two guest trainings and will be there for four more, but since it’s school holidays here it’s not the usual people but a mix of different people from different styles. So far it seems nice – but I haven’t seen the actual people yet.

Too long to read version:
Therefore I still have some time to think things through. Join the other school and leave the HKD class or stay at the HKD class (where I don’t feel too welcome by most of the people and where I “get lost” a lot), because I feel like I owe it to them?
Again: The people in the HKD class aren’t bad people! I’m just not sure anymore if they’re being good for me.

Should be an easy decision, but for some reason it isn’t.
So I’d like to get some other view points – maybe I don’t see a point, like missing the forest for the trees.
At least I feel like I’m missing something.

 

At this point in my martial arts career, if there's no sparring/resistant/pressure testing/whatever component I wouldn't bother with it. I don't feel that you can gain any real competence without it.

PS anyone see that Matt Thornton video!1?!?

 

It's a longer story/ problem, but the short version: I'm socially... awkward and not good with people. Going hand in hand with that I have real trouble attending the entire warm-up (stupid, I know, but nothing I get changed fast).
So when the grading came I got bad cases of test anxiety plus the "warm-up problem" - I got so nervous, that I couldn't really do a proper warm-up all by myself (again: Stupid, I know).
Therefore the teacher said: You don't do you warm-up, so please leave the mat, you won't get tested.
Did I like it at the moment? Hell, no!
But I could understand why he did that.

The happy-part is one of ma problems: I have to drag myself to HKD, but once I'm there is not that bad. Just not all good neither.

I actually agree: Without sparring/ randori whatever you want to call it, I doubt I would learn how to fight.
I probably end up getting surprised by a jab thinking "Okay, that hurt".
It's one of the reasons I think about switching, because the other school includes that as far as I know and I'd like to learn that.

 

I got jabbed in the stomach today and was like "wow that hurt... wow it really hurt... wow i cant breath..."
any plans i had suddenly disappeared...

"Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth." (Tyson) is totally true if you aren't used to being hit.

 

I'm insanely socially awkward. Very, very, very socially anxious. I really understand your position. It's almost physically painful for me to go into a new gym, but I mean, I got certain skills that kind of validate me already. I don't know what it would be like if I stepped into, say, a kali gym now.

Yeah, jabs still surprise me :]

I was thinking about secret knowledge today. There are techniques in bonsai, painting, brazilian jiu jitsu, whatever, that take time to acquire. They only come about in the very worst of circumstances. When a 1200 year old juniper has started to die, how do you try to revive it? Who know? Only those who have suffered.

Same for martial arts.

How do you get to dodge like Muhammed Ali? How do you get to roll like Marcelo Garcia? Only with the sacrifice. Few who know what it costs are willing to make the bargain. I learned a while that I'm not, but hell, that's ok. I'm willing to make certain sacrifices to achieve my own goals :3

 

I "knew" the trainer from the new school through another forum and asked him (after asking my teacher) if I could come and *watch* their training once - and I was rather proud, that I even dared to ask

Well, the answer was "No!", but I could come along and actually train with them.
I nearly ran away again; stood in front of the door for more then 10 minutes (my bus was late, otherwise it would probably have been longer), nearly ran into some dude when he came out for a moment (the trainer as I learned later) - but in the end I actually went in!

My teacher told me to be proud for that alone lol and the trainer was positively surprised as well (I'm being fair and let the trainer know that I'm a bit weird beforehand, so they can say: "Stay at home").
After all, it was the same school I wanted to look at two years ago - I ran the street up and down that day for nearly and hour and jumped back into my train in the end, only able to apologize I while later through a PM in the other forum


In the end I'm working my behind off, that I learn to get better with people.
The awesome thing on my JJ- and my Judo classes is, that those teacher actively help me to achieve that; in tiny steps but I actually do see changes already compared to two years ago.
In HKD their motto is more like "You need to get there alone" - which is more then fine for most people, but difficult for me.
The trainer looks for a way to get me through my next (well first ) grading the next time, but really has no idea what to do - just dragging me on the map, like the JJ-teacher did really is not his way

 

Sorry, for the double post!
Usually I put that in one post I forgot this time.

The good thing is, I actually doubt to get in a SD-situation.

The bad thing is: It still might happen.

So, yeah, I really should know on a more regular basis, how it feels like to get hit.
We did that a few times in JJ and it was interesting and fun - even though at slow pace, because most of us didn't do that before.

When it was my turn to try that with my teacher I got quite some punches in the head - and realized in the end: Yeah, you need to do that way more often!

So adding a school, even if it's only once a week, which does that would most certainly make sense.
And most important: It was fun!

Note to myself: Remind the JJ-teacher, that he wanted to do that way more often and regularly!

 

Hello Latikos! It seems to me like you could use some help with the anxiety problems more so then with martial arts. Have you looked in to what form of anxiety you might have?

In my youth i suffered from generalized anxiety disorder and for a long time i did not know about it; i just thought i was shy and i'll "get over it". Without some help however, it is very difficult.

Strong anxiety can make one give the wrong impression: you can come across as arrogant, disrespectful (because you avoid people and fail to connect), when in reality you are suffering. So i would suggest you read up on the different types of anxiety disorders and begin a plan to fix it. I'll give you some starting points if you want to.

 

I know, that I'm having my troubles there, but I'm working on these already and get all the support needed at the moment through two of my MA-teachers.
I know, they're no professionals, but I don't want that anyway (not thinking that it's something bad at all, "they" helped my Mom out with her problems!). I just don't think that it's such a big thing anymore, that I couldn't tackle myself.
After all, I finally see progress there

My main problem right now really is, that I'm missing that little nudge that says: "Quitting HKD is the right thing to do right now. At least for you."

Because I really don't want to be disrespectful to the HKD-coaches and as far as one of them goes, I don't want to disappoint him either.

On the other hand, I should consider what's best for me at the moment, and I'm not sure if this group as a whole is what's good for me right now.
I talked to my JJ-teacher about (he's my "main teacher", his classes have the highest priority and he knows that) and he even agrees - but I don't know, if that's a situation where it's better to quit and look somewhere else or if it's better to keep fighting and trying.

My guess would be, that I think too complicated. Again.

 

Still not able to answer my initial question, but maybe writing down how it looks at the moment will open my eyes.
So I try it this way. Sorry for that.

Went to the potential new class every Wednesday and this week Friday as well, since they added another session there and the coach of that class invited me as well.
(Private schools with their own rooms certainly have advantages!)

Since the Friday session was held from another teacher (for some weird reason I wasn't half as stressed as I should have been) it didn't have a JJ-focus but more Kickboxing and Karate.
And I enjoyed it as well.

The people there seem to be nice and none of them seem to be bothered to train with me.
So far the groups weren't too big (12 was the highest), but it's holiday season.
(But the JJ-group has 6-10 people during regular times, which would accommodate me).

For the moment I'm actually looking more forward to that new school then the HKD-class.
On the other hand, the last two HKD-classes were alright as well.
Being allowed to be Uke to the teacher is real fun and I learn more in those few minutes then I do during the entire rest of the class.

 

In my opinion it doesn't matter what style you study; all that matters is the teacher you study it with. Once you're sure you have the right teacher, it's important that you don't put a time limit on attaining your goal. You seem concerned that you're not advancing in belt grades. But are you advancing in proficiency in the art? If you're aiming for a black belt, expect it to take eight years and be suspicious about any school that awards them in anything less than that.

 

Then one must be suspicious of about 99.99% of all belt ranked systems out there. 3-4 years is the usual for most places.

 

Especially these days where training can be 7 days a week in many places.

 

PHP:

There are some crappy teachers out there

 

I agree.
I like HKD as a system and really like of the teachers. But I'm afraid the group might get to big for me to handle. And that I just don't fit in there.

I have found my "main teacher" a while ago and so far there is no way I will leave there. It's the JJ teacher, why for the moment that system is my main - it switched, because I started out with HKD, but realized I'm more comfortable at the JJ-class.

Nope, not at all.
I have written, that the only reason I mind not advancing in the belt system is the fact, that I don't learn anything new as long as I don't advance to the next belt - after over two years the same 15 techniques (of which six are one-three moves) it actually gets... well, boring.

I guess I got really good at those techniques from the first test - anything else I haven't done so far.
Which is one of my troubles there.

in my HKD-class it would be more towards ten+ years I have to expect.
I was told that right at the beginning.

And I don't even mind waiting longer. In case I ever become a black belt (I'm only yellow at JJ, white-yellow in Judo, white in HKD) I want to be a good one - and that takes time.
Besides, in most schools here you don't get your black belt within three years or so.

I wish I could do that, than I wouldn't need to be a member in three to four clubs

EDIT

Certainly true, but I do admit that I get along well with 4 of the 5 coaches in the HKD class, and of them especially. The last one is a bit complicated, but he isn't a bad man either. So that on its own wouldn't at least be my problem.
I prefer my others teacher though. /EDIT



I talked to my HKD-coach after practice today.
One of the things he told me, that it can't be good to come to practice, if I feel uneasy about it before. Which makes sense.

Now I need to figure out, what it means that I have to drag myself to my HKD-practice - that I should switch school or that I need to learn to cope with that, kick my own behind and keep going.

And how true the feeling of being morally obliged is, compared to do what might be better for me (and maybe leaving that place).

 

Some instructors rather you get better at methods before moving onto another level. Everyone should not advance just because time is ready

I had a Judo instructor who had me drill over and over on the same thing, Despite I felt I could move up along with my fellow students.

Reflecting back, he was holding me back not because I was worse at that technique than others. It was just the opposite, I was better than others at that technique and he single me out to really get much better.

I shook the faces of other competitors with that technique and instructors from other teams were impressed. One instructor tried to "pull me away" from my current dojo to his ( that at the time)

In all, the belt is not important, developing the skill is

 

As I said before, I totally agree that it's not about the belt itself!

What troubles me, is that I'm learning *nothing* new in little more then two years now.
Because everything new is tied to the new belt level - which I won't get, because I get test fright.

The trainer *wants* me to test; back in November he told me I should get tested but then ruled me out again due to some issues. I wouldn't even mind much (in fact I didn't) - if I would have gotten at least the opportunity to learn some new techniques (the ones for the next belt).

He even lets me teach the "old" techniques to people who come new to us - so I guess, he thinks I can do them well enough, even though maybe not perfectly well.
EDIT: So, I'm not sure how I am to learn to develop my skills - I don't get anything new to learn and for the "old stuff" I hardly get any corrections anymore; only from one of the teachers all now and then.

I think my next move will be talking to the possible new teacher, if he even still could imagine taking me in as a student after the holidays.
Who knows, maybe I already did something to make him think: "No, thanks"

So far I tend to actually switching though.
The people on the new school were very nice so far and didn't mind to train with me.
Also I already got input on what I need to work in the future.

 

He (the head coach in HKD) doesn't really know how, because the ways that do work, aren't his way to handle things.

Well, apparently I'm doing well enough in my JJJ- and Judo class.
(Personally I'm not that satisfied, but I never am )

My first grading (ever) in JJ was pure stress, but after I was dragged onto the mat everything went alright and I passed rather good.

In case he wants me to, I will be tested within this year again (that depends on how I will do; after all I lost nearly four month of training due to my broken arm) - I know there will be some harsh words, some kicks in the bum and in the worst case a dragging onto the mat - and once I'm there things will probably go well again, because otherwise he wouldn't have me tested.

I mainly need help to get to the point, where I hardly come out of everything without doing the test.
So in HKD it would have been enough, if the warm-up would have been a group thing instead of an individual one.


My Judo grading was a bit sneaky, as he did it during class.
The teacher came all now and then and said: "Show me xy", so I did - because I knew he was looking at the techniques, to see if I was ready to get tested (or so I thought, because we agreed on that ).

(Guess, I should have known that he would ninja the test like that; after all on my first Judo training with him, I was uke for a test just like that).

It's something he can do for the first test, maybe the second but after that's it's going to be normal gradings, in front of everyone else - and he already told me, that he will get me through it. Which I do believe.

My anxiety issues are still there, I know that better then anyone, but they also got a lot better within the last year.
Otherwise I doubt I would have managed to actually go to the new school and attend their classes, which are done so far by three different teachers, with a fourth to come tomorrow.
I'm actually really looking forward to that! Which was impossible two years ago!