The sakki test

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Whit, Aug 31, 2017.

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  1. Whit

    Whit Valued Member

    This video clearly shows the guy pulling blows for the people he intends to pass giving them a chance to dodge.


     
  2. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Sakki test has been done to death here man. Some people think it's legit. Some people think it's not quite so legit but a nice milestone in their training nonetheless. Some people think it's a load of hogwash with lots of bias and so many systematic flaws that a certain percentage of people will pass it with no sakki sense at all.
     
  3. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    It's also worth studying who is able to take the correct position when they sit down and whether they are passed or failed - this is a part of the test too
     
    gapjumper likes this.
  4. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Have a look at this - 28mins in (apologies I can't embed it to start at the right point)

    There are 2 passes here and perhaps one person was passed

    You can see a difference in the posture, composure and positioning vs the other clip I think

    And of course this is put out in the public which is a bit different from how things are in private
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
  5. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    Some people (like me) have no idea what it is. XP
     
  6. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Training in the Bujinkan (other japanese arts also claim to teach this), supposedly, gives you the ability to sense, without using your sense of vision, hearing or sense of touch "danger" and/or "intent to do harm" (I've seen both claimed).
    Hatsumi, or some other high grade, stands behind the test taker and, supposedly, without warning swings a shinai or other training weapon at them (which is why it can't be "danger" being sensed in these cases) and if they avoid the swing (what avoiding actually entails isn't well defined, some roll right out of the way, while some just duck) they pass the test.
    Apparently Hatsumi passed this test with a live blade swung completely at random by his instructor Takamatsu.
     
  7. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    Not wanting to feed into this, I have no comment other than to say I hate that music
     
  8. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    That sounds silly. Seems like they have a good idea to tap into the other senses but going about it all wrong and over estimating the ability. anyway thanks for the explanation.

    Seconded, just listened to it.
     
  9. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    The Japanese don't really feel the need to define how these things work (is it a 6th sense, a collection of subtle inputs via the 5 senses etc)
    They simply ask a) can you do it and b) can you do it with good movement?

    I think it's westerners who tend to overestimate what it is
     
    kouryuu likes this.
  10. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Damn us silly westerners. Wanting to know stuff. You don't get anywhere knowing stuff. :)
     
  11. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Overestimating something is different from knowing stuff I think :)
     
  12. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    The thing is though...as we got into in the other sakki test thread...if the bujinkan (or anyone) had actually stumbled upon what the sakki test is said to represent...it'd be MASSIVE.
    It'd be ground breaking in many fields of psychology, physiology, physics, biology, espionage, the military, law enforcement, prison security, venue security, bodyguarding, border security, etc etc.
    There wouldn't be a military force in the world that wouldn't want to use it in training their personnel. Every government in the world would be seeking out the Bujinkan to empower their operatives.
    Can you imagine how much safer troops would be if they could sense when a sniper had them in their sights, drive over an IED or walk into an ambush?
    You could place a Bujinkan 5th dan at major venues to prevent terrorist attacks.
    But...that's not what we see in the real world.
     
  13. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    It has some validity, you can have moments where you can sense somone behind you for what ever reason. belive thats due to unaware changes in enviroment or soemthing liek that, the dodging sword part using it is well, interesting. Laymans terms its a 6th sense.

    Nah, his black outfit and mask would give him away. :p
     
  14. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    With all due respect I think you're overestimating what it is

    It's really just learning to move (correctly) without thinking - under pressure & in a different (unfamiliar) context to normal training
     
  15. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    And with even more respect, as happened in the other sakki thread with some people, I think you are playing it down.
    It's clearly intended to display something special or out of the ordinary. It's not something present in many other martial arts and if the testing protocols are adhered to would represent a form of ESP.
    There were stories from Bujinkan folk avoiding run-away cars, sensing when they are being watched and other such things.
    The sakki test itself depends on not using the eyes, ears or touch to sense when the right time to roll is. That is not something that can be dismissed lightly (if it's real).

    If you think some of the twitchy ducks, flinches, side prat-falls and back flops that pass the test represent correct movement without thinking then I'm not sure what to say. Some of the passes look OK in terms of good rolling and posture but some look awful.

    I have no problem with a test that looks at correct movement and working under pressure under unfamiliar context (hell JWT's sim days test exactly that). But the facets of the sakki test that remove the need for using your senses seek to elevate it beyond that.
     
    Knee Rider likes this.
  16. Hannibal

    Hannibal Angriest MAP resident.... Supporter

    And its largely unproven at best and absolute shash at worst
     
    Knee Rider likes this.
  17. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I think I'm representing the "sensible silent majority of the buj" here - probably that entails playing down a lot of crazy stuff
    I do, however, speak from direct experience

    It's worth noting that Hatsumi-sensei does the test on people with no experience (eg TV reporters) and they move, so no one (sensible) is suggesting that by training in the buj you develop "spidey senses"

    Yeah no one (sensible) thinks twitches, ducks etc are a "pass" - the question that (sensible) folks are asking when watching a test is "can they move correctly at the right moment (& not before)?"

    Of course I appreciate that on the surface of it everyone passes eventually, but that's a quirk of the buj that impacts more than just the test and has many downsides, creates a lot of confusion and threads on MAP
     
  18. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    Wasnt supporting this particular example, looks fun to do not with full force or metal swords though, i thought two emojis in the same block of text would look, ehh. Or one would be put after the first like too. But i dont actually know what this is nor its uses/ purposes so off i go.
     
  19. Simon

    Simon The Bulldog Admin

    I think we have had enough discussion on the sakki test and so before this one descends into silliness I'm going to close it.

    Please do a search for other threads if you have something constructive to say.
     
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