I have been told to do this as part of my internal training..my teacher calls it embracing the tree..bend the knees, straight back, neck resting on top of spine to weight of head is transferred down. Focus on the breathing into the stomach Dantian Question is..does it really work? When i do it my fingers begin to tingle but i dont feel anything else
As long as you understand the purpose of the exercise, and as long as you are not just standing still, then yes, Zhan Zhuang 'works'. What have you been told to 'do' whilst standing? Other than 'breathe into dan tian'? Pay no attention to tingling in your fingers. That distracts you from the purpose. EDIT: Forgot to ask - what have you been told is the purpose of Zhang Zhuang?
The purpose I have been told is to cultivate energy..but this has not been elaborated upon any further at this point as I have only began training..I am reading more into it When you say "as long as im not standing still"..what do you mean exactly as I thought it is a standing exercise? What would you say is the purpose of this? Have you done this?
Forget about 'cultivating energy' - you do that when you sleep! The purpose of Zhang Zhuang is to systematically release excess tension through the body, via focused breathing and visualisation techniques. The reason for this is that; excess tension acts as a brake system to your movement. You can move much more quickly and freely when you are relaxed, rather than tense. In every day life, you gather residual tension in your body. The idea of Zhang Zhuang is to release this tension and take you back to the state of relaxation that you were in when you were born. It also serves as a platform to feel and correct your posture/structure, as well as to learn to direct your feeling and intention to different parts of your body. In the system I have learnt, there are 5 postures for 'health' and 8 postures for 'martial' training.
Find a new teacher. Seriously doing zhang zhuang for any more than a few minutes is a waste of time. It
Disagree also. It depends on the depth of your practice. If you are literally just 'standing' - then that is a waste of time. If you incorporate neigong into the process, then it has its uses. Obviously, you have to take the skill that you learn in 'standing' and learn to apply it to 'moving'. This is why Tai Chi movements are intially done slowly - to give the practitioner the ability to integrate the neigong elements into their movement. It's much harder to do this at full speed. Eventually, the skill should be applicable to 'life speed'.
The way the OP was describing it, it was just standing still. If you are moving then I don't consider that ZZ, i believe it is silk reeling which I think is much more beneficial than just standing there.
Then surely the problem is with the way the OP has been taught - not with Zhang Zhuang as a method in itself?
You can reference XingYi ZZ method. I believe Taiji ZZ and XingYi ZZ should be similiar. Since the translation may not be clear. Here are few major key points. - Your belly should expand out slowly and tuck back in slowly. This will lead your body to move slowly. You then coordinate breath into it. - Your spine is like a dragon. When your spine is strong, it can help you in combat. - ZZ is not static. Your body moves slowly. People just can't see your moving from outside. - ZZ is like holding a girl. You don't use your arms to squeeze. You hold your girl in your arms and "move" your body to touch her. - After you have done ZZ for a period of time, when you start walking, you then feel your body is "open" again. The following is my opinion. Without - "compression", you won't understand "expanding". - being in jail, you won't understand "freedom". - ZZ, you won't understand "open". I think the feeling of "open/freedom" after ZZ is important. You 1st force yourself not to move. When you can't take it any more, you let yourself free. Now you will truly "enjoy" your body movement and you may be able to move faster than normal. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 薛颠传的桩功，一个練法是，小肚子像打太极拳一般，很慢很沉着地张出，再很 慢很沉着地缩回，带动全身，配合上呼吸，不是意守丹田，而是气息在丹田中來 去。这个方法，可以壮阳，肾虚，滴漏的毛病都能治好。另外打拳也要这样，出 拳时肚子也微微顶一下，收拳时肚子微微敛一下，好像是第三个拳头，多出了一 个肚子，不局限在兩只手上，三点成面，劲就容易整了。 还有一个方法，站桩先正尾椎，尾椎很重要，心情不好时，按摩一下尾椎，就会 缓解。从尾椎一节一节脊椎骨顶上去，直到后脑，脊椎自然会反弓，脑袋自然会 后仰， 兩手自然会高抬，然后下巴向前一钩，手按下，脊椎骨一节一节退下來。 如此反復練习，会有奇效。脊椎就是一条大龍，它有了劲力，比武时方能有「神 变」。 注意，这三个桩功都是动的，不过很慢很微，外人看不出來。薛颠說的好，桩功 是「慢練」。这些都是入门的巧计，一練就会有效果，但毕竟属于形意的基本功， 練功夫的「功夫」，指的还不是这个。至于如何再向上練，薛颠和唐维祿都各有 路數。 尚云祥把这些方法都跳开，站桩死站着不动，是错误的，但他就传了一个不动的。 一次我站桩，他问我：「你抱过女人没有？」我就明白了。这个「抱」字，不是兩条胳膊使劲，而是抱进怀裡，整个身体都要迎上去。这是对站桩「拿劲」的比 喻，拿住了这个劲，一站就能滋养人。 一天我站桩，尚云祥說：「你给我这么呆着！」这一个「呆」字，一下子就让我 站「进」去了(没法形容，只能这么說)。后來他对我說：「你怎么还在这呆着？走 吧！」身体一下就「开」了。 形意是用身体「想」，开悟不是脑子明白，而是身体明白。与禅的「言下顿悟」 相似，等身体有了悟性，听到一句话就有反应，就像马挨了一鞭子，体能立刻勃 发出來了—-尚式形意发扬的是这种教法。 Mr Great Britain, 練 method is that little belly like shadow boxing, very slow and very calmly and slowly retract very calm, driven body combined with breathing, not concentrate on dantian, breath coming in the pubic region. This way, as an aphrodisiac, renal deficiency, dripping problem can be cured. So will the fight be, punch her stomach is slightly when top look, your fist gently grabbing his belly, like a third fist, one stomach, is not confined to the two on hand, three points, it is easy. There is also a method, first coccygeal vertebrae, coccygeal vertebrae are important, bad mood, massage the coccygeal vertebrae, should ease. Top section of the section from coccygeal vertebrae spine, until the brain, spine is naturally anti-bow, his head will certainly backward, two hands will naturally be higher up, and then his Chin forward hook, hand-pressed, back up the spine section section. So anti-shopping 練 acquisition would have worked wonders. Spine is a large South Dragon, it has strength, when you fight in order to have "God". Note that these three piles were driven, but very very slowly, and outsiders did not see coming. Mr rough said good is "slow 練". These are the trick to get started, 練 there will be effect, but, after all, belong to the basic skills of xingyi, 練 Kung Fu "Kung Fu", refers to this. 練 upward again, Mr Great Britain and there are roads to Tanvi 祿 sequences. Shang Yunxiang jumped away all these methods, standing dead stood motionless, is wrong, but he ended up with a move. Once I was standing, and he asked me: "you hold a woman yet? "I will understand. This "hold" character, not the two arms, but to hold in my arms look no further, the whole body went up. This is a "hard" analogy, take this hard, a station can nourish people. One day I was standing, Shang Yunxiang says: "you give me here! "A" "character, all of a sudden I stand" into "(can't tell, can only say so). Coming after he said to me: "why are you still here? Go! "Body" on ". Xingyi is the body, "think", enlightenment is not a brain to understand, but understand the body. And Zen "statement following Epiphany" like, body perception, reaction of the heard a Word, just like the horse got a whip, physical strength up coming in at once--is carried forward this teaching method.
Not necessarily. While I do think that it does have it's place for learning stances and such. However when it comes to the conditioning aspects of it I believe that there are far more effective ways of building strength and endurance. To me when ever I hear someone say that you have to practice ZZ for X amount of time before you can do taiji it rings a bell that tells me that the teacher either knows diddly or that they are trying to scam a few months tuition out of me.
But, the point of ZZ isn't building strength and endurance.. As I said above, to me ZZ is about releasing of tension, guiding awareness and training the breath. Building strength and endurance takes different work - bodyweight/weight training, running, etc. I would do ZZ as a 'cool down' after doing the strength and endurance work, to release any residual tension that has been built up doing the 'hard' work. Generally, I might agree.. To me, there is a process that is taken during ZZ practice, whether you are working on tension-release, or mind-training. It shouldn't simply be "how long can I hold the stance for?" but "have I gone through the process?".
Hello. I would like to give my perspective on the practice of ZZ. It seems that there are conflicting opinions within this thread. Without naming any names, those that say ZZ does not work or is a waste of time have obviously never done any standing for any length of time. If they have, then it was done incorrectly. In regards to tai chi, i believe the zz work is paramount to gaining a deeper understanding of the movements (by not moving). In fact, you may take any of your tai chi pieces and hold them in zz fashion. While static standing is not 'required' to learn tai chi, you will have a more well rounded practice if you include it. Eventually the energy builds to a high level and begins to move within the body. This is the true meaning of movement without movement. A member stated that zz was not static, but had slow movements that people don't see. I assure you that zz is in fact a static exercise and the movement experienced is all internal. The external movement is another phase of the ichuan training, not the zz itself. About fingers tingling, it is typical of the practice. Throughout your training, you may experience tingling of the hands and extremities, hot/cold sensations, shaking, etc. This is the body adjusting to the standing. It will soon pass and should be of little concern. It was also said that zz is not for strength or endurance and should be done as a cool down after doing other workouts. I have to disagree with this. If you are doing high level standing, "hugging the tree" for 45 minutes will produce remarkable power and endurance. I would not want to fatigue with other methods and then try and stand for several hours. ZZ builds the body, lifting weights break it down. The order is reversed. Stand first, then lift if you choose too. If you are only standing for a few minutes per posture (Or total time), then you have not discovered the true secrets of this method. If you fail to gain strength, endurance, insight, and Qi from your studies, stand longer. This can be an extremely boring practice at first, but sticking with it will prove to be very rewarding for all practitioners. I have been using this method for almost 12 years and still consider myself a beginner. ZZ is one of my favorite exercises for health and power. I hope I have helped to clear some things up and have not offended anyone. This is all based on personal studies and years of dedication. I am not telling you something I heard or just read about, but something that is a part of my life. This exercise will continue to grow and reveal itself to you for the rest of your life if you choose to pursue that level of study. Good luck in your training!!
Please notice that ZZ exist in many TCMA systems such as SC, XingYi, Taiji, ... First, we have to define what ZZ is. If we are talking about this kind of ZZ, http://imageshack.us/a/img829/6677/yiquan.jpg which is different from this kind of ZZ. http://imageshack.us/a/img408/8945/13taibu.jpg This ZZ "羅漢观天 (Luo Han Guan Tian) - Lou Han looks at sky" is not easy to hold it for a long time. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVdaub_i8bs"]my zz - YouTube[/ame]
You have absolutely no idea what my training history is or who I've trained with, so I would advise you to keep your assumptions to your self. Nonsense. If you want to understand a certain movement better then you have to move. You wouldn't stand on one leg with your knee in the air to get ready for a marathon, you run instead. That "energy" is nothing more than a build up of electrolytes in your hands. The hot and cold sensations are likely from increased/decreased blood circulation. All of the effects can be explained scientifically. Standing around for 45 minutes is called loitering and you can see kids doing that in many parking lots around the world. I wouldn't want to do that either mostly because I prefer actually doing exercises that have a significant impact on my body and can be performed in under the amount of time it takes to watch Lord of the Rings. You are also demonstrating a complete lack of basic human anatomy. Any time a muscle gets tired be it from lifting iron or holding your hand out, it breaks down the muscle. Something tells me that your studies haven't been the least bit scientific. Frankly I find it absurd that you can seriously believe that people such as world class athletes are in worse health than some 90 year old chinese guy that's been holding his hands up for a long time.
You should be careful throwing around assumptions about the training of others here. Particularly when you follow up with this: Generally, I might agree with what you're saying, until you started talking about 'energy' - you're going to have to define this 'energy' a lot more before I can agree or disagree with you there. I didn't say it should be done as a cool down. I said that if I had done strength or endurance, then I would use ZZ to release any residual tension built up during the practice. ZZ can also be done as an exercise by itself. I, personally, wouldn't bother standing for 45 minutes - there are much better things to spend your time doing. And, there are far superior methods of building power and endurance - using actual methods that are designed for that purpose. I wouldn't want to stand for several hours as it is. Do you incorperate any aspects of Neigong into your standing? If so, what parts? I would contend that; if you're standing for 45mins+ then you are doing an empty practice. There comes a point when you stop making any gains, and just start massaging your own ego. I gain all of those qualities that you mention via methods actually devised to produce them. I use ZZ for the reason it was developed; systematic release of residual tension, guiding of the mind, breath coordination,and developing connected structure. Yes, you certainly still sound like a beginner to me - you're stuck thinking ZZ is about how long you can stand. You haven't 'cleared' anything up. You've just added a load of new-age waffle to this discussion, that would further confuse the OP from the real purpose of ZZ. All your talk of Qi, of standing for extended periods of time... It's all fluff.
if you are standing doing ZZ and your arms ache or any other body part should you then stop as the purpose is to relax your body?...and how by doing this exercise do you develop power? I thought it was to release tension.. it is hard to perform i find as you just stand there..start to get bored if im honest but will peservere
You shouldn't 'stop' - but what I find useful is letting the arms drop if you feel the shoulders tensing up due to fatigue in practice. Let them hang for a few seconds, then resume the posture. How does this develop power? By releasing excess tension, you are decreasing the amount of residual resistance against your movements. In other words, your movements will be faster, and your muscles will only use the tension necessary, rather than carrying loads of residual. As I said before - you shouldn't be just standing there. There is a neigong process that you should be working through whilst standing. This requires a lot of concentration, so you shouldn't get bored!
All ZZ can be trained both "statically" and "dynamically". This is "static" ZZ. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_hSSiGRhXk"]Chang ZZ - YouTube[/ame] This is "dynamical" ZZ. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x39I2YKY8O4"]my zz2 - YouTube[/ame]
Sorry to hurt your feelings mate. Perhaps you should look inside yourself for a deeper understanding before attempting to bash someone on a forum. It couldn't be more obvious that you have only (at best) played with these methods. I do not know who/what you have studied, you are correct in saying that. As far as advising me of anything, please save your breath. It seems like a threat to me, and we both know that only children threaten someone on a forum. It can never be resolved. The fact that you felt targeted in any way tells me that you are angry about your lack of understanding. Insisting that I am mistaken or unscientific is ridiculous. Keep training my friend! The answers will come. As far as discovering movement from non-movement, you must do the work to gain the understanding. The movement begins inside while doing the standing. For example, if I feel it moving to the left, I could follow it with the body and have a completely intuitive and spontaneous application, rather than just memorizing a particular technique. Don't get me wrong, techniques help to offer a structured learning, but should ultimately be forgotten (blended naturally) at higher levels. Now for you child-like comments...Loitering?? Really? Also, I never made any comparison to world class athletes or marathon runners, that was all you. This is a discussion of internal training, not external. I guess you cannot distinguish yet the difference. You're probably a very nice young man, but just chose to target me for some reason. That is OK. Perhaps our exchange can help to educate the others more. I just find your comments a little odd about a subject you only dabble in. (You did say that standing for any length of time was not for you). One last thing to think about...you let me know that i was wrong in saying that it builds you up instead of breaking you down...well, you are kind of right (but not really). Let me explain: You are still caught up in 'muscle building' mentality. When you stand correctly you are 'supported', not straining physically. The process becomes effortless. It is in this stage where the growth I am talking about happens without taxing the physical in the manner you speak of. Does this make any sense to you, Mr. Scientist? These concepts are jokes to the men who don't understand them. All I am asking is that you have some first hand knowledge (long term) of the study you are telling me is wrong. We don't grow as artists by closing our minds.
