Zen in the style names of Mcdojo's

I have been noticing more and more the introduction of the word zen in certain styles of both kempo (kenpo) and jujitsu. No doubt zen could play a good part in the martial arts but to advertise a fighting system as zen is B.S. Is it a marketting thing

KK :twisted:

 

Hi Kempo-Kid,

My school says they teach Zen phillosopy along with ma, but I am having doubts about my school and am trying to get information on whether I should still train with them or not. I would be interested to know what others think, if you have a 2 hour lesson and and sometimes 30 minutes of the lesson is devoted to talking zen philisophy, would you still want to stay with the school or go somewhere where the full two hours is spent just doing ma?

 

Maybe they should make the lessons 2 hours 30

Personally I don't think theres anything wrong if a school decides that it wants to teach Zen as part of the class. As long as the person teaching it actually knows what he is teaching (i.e. real experience) and they actually use a practice (i.e. zazen) and don't just waffle on about some pseudo philosophy.

I don't think its an essential part of practicing martial arts though. Its more a good idea in general...

 

Shorinji Kempo is a MA/Zen school. Founded in 1947 in Japan, it teaches Kongo Zen philosophy and self defence techniques.

If you don't want the philosophy... go somewhere else! There are plenty of places willing to take your money and teach you how to beat somebody senseless. You'll be missing out on some terrific teaching, great techniques and some thought-provoking stuff that helps to make sense out of a lot of things. No-one has to drop their religion to partake, Buddhism tends to be fairly inclusive.

Part of the concept behind Shorinji Kempo is to help promote a Heathy Mind, along side a Healthy Body and Self-Defence. In this way the founder hoped to replicate the spirit of harmonious training and self-deveopment that had been practised at the Shaolin Temple (Shorinji Kempo is the Japanese reading of the Chinese characters that would be "Shaolin-ssu chu'an fa" - Shaolin Temple Fist Method).

Learning the philosophy starts right at the beginning, so by the time anyone is ready to teach, they should have a thorough grounding in Buddist philosophy and Kongo Zen in particular.




I'd echo the comments above though. If the Zen isn't being taught well, then you may as well go somewhere that teaches just the moves... or just the Zen.

 

It appears to me that "zen" is one of those things that westerners fall in love with, without knowing what the hell it really means, because is sounds oriental and mystical. However, as far as I understand, an important part of Zen is to grow stronger in the face of harsh times and tough punishment, which is part of the philosophy of several MA styles. Full contact karate springs to mind.

 

Applause!

 

They used to.
But that was Zen and this is Tao.



*groan*

 

Lol

 

Both are eastern philosophical concepts that have been abused by the hippies.- and the west NEVER knew what they meant in the past, and they do now.

*yawn*

 

*applause* Wow. People generally groan at puns. But that, my friend, was art.

I'm with the general consensus on this one. Zen is just too easy to drop into a martial arts program to give you a marketing leg up. But zen isn't a corollary to martial arts. A serious scholar or priest could easily spend his whole life studying zen. No reason to suppose that your average black belt is qualified to lecture on it.

Besides, zen is so difficult to pin down. There was a philosophy teacher at my college who apparently gave a well known "lecture" on zen. He climbed onto his desk and screamed at the top of his lungs. Got down and said "that's zen." Personally, I was thinking, "nope, that's a lunatic on a desk."

 

I expect full credit when you use it!

*milks applause like the ham he is*

 

You got it mate!

 

To have a school that teaches "Site in mediation and concentrate on the inner-self" and then says "THEN GET UP AND PUNCH SOME DUDES IN THE NOSE" is really quite a contradiction. I'm inflating the situation a bit, i know. Martial Arts is made to do some things depending on the schools frame of mind. It really can be broken down into to main groups. It's either A. a school that focuses on Street Fighting or Combat techniques to use specifically for fighting. Or B. A school that focuses on bettering yourself through the vehicle of training the body, mind and soul. You can mix the two quite easily but the fact remains you can't claim to have a 'ZEN' school if you have a school that is also very fight-oriented.

My school which is the 'B' school really doesn't do alot of sparring. we do, do partner drill and other strength training. And yes, as everyone know, there is the martial application of the movements we do and that isn't hidden.

If a school teaches on the grounds of fighting, then teaches about 'Zen', i'm surprised more students are confused.

 

Disagree with that. Granted it doesn't tend to happen. But it's not that it can't happen. The big appeal of zen to groups like the samurai was that it provided a philosophical framework to cope with the proximity of death. Fighting and zen have been linked for a while now. No real reason why a serious fighting school couldn't have strong ties to zen. My only stipulation would be that it's an earnest study of zen and not just a buzzword.

 

I agree with that, but i base my opinion on the schools around my area and others i have seen, which,unfortunately, cannot do both of those. They don't have the foundation OR they see 'ZEN' as a buzzword and totally misrepresent 'ZEN' as a whole. Noone prepares for Death anymore. Zen doesn't even teach about death. It teaches about life and the dissolve of attachments. I understand the ties to the old days but allot of these styles have been updated and it doesn't seem to mean the same thing anymore.

 

No argument there.

No argument there either. But presumably the lessons of zen are as applicable as they ever were. You're right. Zen never taught about death specifically. But if you're in a situation where death is a real and constant possibility, it's presumably a comfort to be able to see your existence from a bigger perspective. Like they say, "there are no atheists in foxholes." When death is imminent, it's comforting to know that 1) it means something and 2) you're more than just this killable shell.

I agree with you. I just don't think that zen and punching people in the nose are diametrically opposed. Most schools that talk about punching people in the nose don't address zen properly. But then, most schools that talk about self improvement, confidence, and spirituality don't either.


Stuart

 

Common ground is a good thing. Good arguments.

 

Likewise, my friend.

 

How do you mean 'zen in the style names'? do they literally just drop the word 'zen' at the beginning?

 

http://www.zenmartialarts.com/

http://www.superior.net/~zendokai/

http://www.clams.org/jt.html (ooo, the Tao Zen academy, that must be really good)

There is also a Kaizendo that was created by some guy who did tkd tai chi and kickboxing or something.
hmmm, ok so I google searched for zen martial arts and that was all I found, I don't even know if they are "McDojos" maybe the person who started the thread has a comprehensive list.