Zanbatou

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by saikyou, Sep 30, 2003.

  1. Infesticon #1

    Infesticon #1 Majesticon

    I've heard of a zanbatou, and yes it was in a comic.

    well, it was zanbato with a horizontal line above the o, it was called the horsecutting stroke, and the guy used a Dotanuki and that had lines above the o and the u.

    It was in Lone wolf and cub.
     
  2. ShadowDrakken

    ShadowDrakken New Member

    actually, there is a real sword called Zanbatou, however, its NOT like the one on Kenshin. The real sword resembled an oversized katana, and was only used a short time before being decommissioned due to its unwieldy weight

    references:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanbatou
    http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~ssbohe/two_cavalierkiller.htm

    The "Buster Sword" on the other hand, is quite a bit of a joke.

    There were a few large swords used in northern Europe that exceded 11 pounds, such as the claymore, but they were wielded by massive individuals and even then were fairly impractical

    Edit: just a side note, oo and ou are both written as รด as a form of shorthand, that's all the little line over the o means ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2003
  3. Dark Blade

    Dark Blade It Roundhouse time

  4. Cudgel

    Cudgel The name says it all

    Not true
    Whiel thre were sword made of that size they were not made for battle being simple iron bars taht looked like swords, much like most the crap swords made today. They were for diplays and parades.

    The heaviest twohanded swords maxed out at 6 pounds and thosea re still heavy. I KNow i handled one aobut year ago one heavy sword.
    Adn the indivuals who would have weiled these massive swords were proabably around 6-6 and half feet tall weighing proabably 180 -200 pounds. not to terribly massive.

    Oh yeah that Masamune sword kicks ass if i had the money I owuld buy one although Imprety sure its a nagimaki not a nodachi
    and I know for a fact that nodachi does not mean great sword it means field sword.

    sharpness for the buster sword is one LOL it owuld probably get cut it hit anything
     
  5. Epoch

    Epoch New Member

    the no-dachi (o-dachi, masamune blades, and large swords such as the scottish claymore were not made for horseback attacks as they were so huge and very heavy as more seen in the zanbatou and claymore cases, they were used by footsoldiers where as the scots would use them to cut the feet off of a enemy horse and then decapate the enemy once he fell to the ground and got up such as seen in the movie braveheart. However the no-dachi (o-dachi) used by the japanese were so huge that during wartime a warrior who wanted to use the no-dach had to have 2 or more warriors carry the no-dachi behind him. i have seen a few actual claymores and they arent 6lbs try more like 15 or 20lbs in some cases even heavier. whereas the zanbatou would be more like 25-40lbs maybe more depending on what material the sword was made of. the 6lb sword that you held was not a actual sword it was most likely a cheap remake that some company like the Noble Collection passed off as "real" claymore. heres a link to the largest no-dachi sword found so far as they were rarely made - http://japantrip.tripod.com/nodachi/norimitsu.html remember when actual no-dachi (o-dachi's were made they were smithed by 3 or more blacsmiths at a time because the blade was so long and they had only a limited time to hammer and shape it.
    oh and saikyou the no-dachi (o-dachi), claymore, zanbatou, masamune and many more hige swords arent fictional they are very real.
     
  6. Cudgel

    Cudgel The name says it all

    as I said before western swor4ds weighing more than 6 pounds were for diplay purposes only. The `15 pound swords are called bearing swords and were carried during parades because they were big nad impressive.
    Just were did you get your info that 6lb swords are cheap remakes?
    INorder for a sword to weigh 15 pounds it needs to be around half an inch thick, two inches wide and really friggen long. Find me a real sword that is used for real fighitng that weighs that much.

    I see from your profile you study Asian MA well I study European MA so I think I am better qualified to say what is what.
    But hey dont take my word for it
    Go here
    www.swordforum.com
    or here
    www.axeforum.com
    or here
    http://www.geocities.com/e_ball_woolley/Links.html
    and then ask people who have been studying WMA longer than I have been alive.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2003
  7. Epoch

    Epoch New Member

    ok now we have a problem do you mean 6lb or something else beause 6lb isnt very heavy thats pretty light for a broadsword especially a claymore. I did not say 6lb swos are cheap remakes i simply stated "the sword that you said you held was most likely a remake being that it is nearly impossible to find a real claymore and not a remake" meaning it would be more feesible that if you held a claymore it was most likely a remake. As for finding you a real sword that is made for fighting thats not too hard if you are ever near scotland go to any museum that has swords and you will eventually find a broadsword maybe even a claymore lol and museums wont let anyone touch them because chances are if they have a actual claymore then it is most likely 300 years old or more and will be locked in a case. Guess what they dont weigh 6lbs because 6lbs is really light for a 6 or 7 ft long sword where the blade is nearly half an inch thick, almost 2 inches wide at the base wider in some cases. as well as the handle being close to a ft long and almost 1 inch round. being that you think actual claymore is 6lb leads me to beleuve you have never seen a real claymore. Oh and good luck finding a actual batle ready fully functional claymore or broadsword beause the only way you will find one is by paying a blacksmith anywhere between 4 -$6,000 and up. Also a batle ready katana that isnt a cheap remake starts at $5000 and i have seen them go up to $13,000. The fact that i study asain martial arts means nothing it is basically discrimination - you saying you have more of a reason to know what is what. also if you read my profile you would notice that i wrote i study these martial arts ..... and more. so before you assume find all the facts.
     
  8. Cudgel

    Cudgel The name says it all

    well as i study WMA it owuld stand to reason that I owuld know morea bout my chosen MA than some one who doesnt study it.
    Hows about you follow my links and ask some questions there before you try to perptuate the 15 pound sword myth. I actually handles an antique zweihander it was longer than I was tall but not by much, and was heavy. but was due to leverage and balance adn the fact that I did not know how stand holding one.
    I can find battle ready replicas taht are truley battle ready ie tempered carbon steel taht weigh less than 6 pounds.
    and maybe you should get measurements of these 15 pound claymores.
     
  9. Epoch

    Epoch New Member

    ok i stated a broadsword or a claymore a claymore would be heavier then any other broadsword except for a zanbatou simply because claymores are so huge. But if you lack the skills to go to a library or even look on a search engine about the size and weight of a claymore then there is no point in you even replying to this post. also i have studied alot of different martial arts forms the ones i listed on my profile werent all of them hence i wrote a few then put "and more" so once again dont assume that since i didnt list all the forms of martial arts i studied that you know what i did or didnt do. also remember scots were 6ft tall sometimes taller and 200- 250lbs almost all muscle that right there would mean they could easily weild a 6ft claymore with a 1/2 thik handle nearly and inch and a half wide and almost a 1 inch round handle which weighed 10 lbs or more. There is a common misconception about when companies say battle ready. if you found a sword in a magazine, on the internet or whatever like a claymore a broadsword that isnt hand forged (meaning made by hand by a blacksmith and not by a company who uses machines to make swords) whichc most companies who sell replica swords which they call "battle ready" are made in machines and not by hand. most sword companies like the noble collection or these cheap swords you see on the internet and in magazines are for Decoration only. Sword companies use the term battle ready as meaning a decoration but it could be used for battle if it was made right. If you have found a so called battle ready claymore i would really love to see some info and pics on your so called battle ready sword because a actual hand made claymore made right that cant take alot and not break will cost you $3,000 and up. also if you think you have found one e-mail the company or the person who makes it ask them something like - if i was to run head on against my opponent and swung this sword would the blade or handle break? Chances are if you have found a battle ready claymore that you are interested in buying that is made by a company and not by a blacksmith or swordmaker it will most likely hurt or possibly even kill you or anyone around you. also if this so called battle ready sword is actually battle ready it will cost you more then $3,000. id advise you to physically be there and watch the sword when it is formed out of metal.
     
  10. Cudgel

    Cudgel The name says it all

    so far you have given me no research to back up your claims.
    and the average SCot bck in the day was around maybe 5'8" nd claymores are short for a twohanded sword so your claims of them being so heavy becasue they were 6+ft long looks kinda sad.
    How much do you know about metalurgy?
    I willsay it again
    go to www.swordforum.com and ask some more people about your 15 pound sword

    And I am well aware of the tendcy of merchants selling "battle ready" swords that would bend cutting a plastic bottle.

    So if you be so kind to prove me wrong with actual research that you have gather not just your perceptions of weight, but links to reputable sites with accurate information and documentation supporting their findings.

    Im not stupid and im not implying your are either. But I willnot beleive some thing just because I was told it by some one over the net unless I an find it in a book.

    Would like books about hte subject I cant point in the right direction for them too. I now how use a library they are on e of my favorite places to go for books about weaponry.

    here is an essay about buying replica for sparing purposes
    http://www.thearma.org/essays/InterpretingReplicas.htm
    its the fourth section down Weight and balance
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2003
  11. ShadowDrakken

    ShadowDrakken New Member

    I agree that most swords are pretty light, and almost all battle-used swords were 6lbs and under. But there were a few battle-used swords heavier than that.

    Quoted from another board, someone who, from reading his other posts, seems to know what they're talking about and seems to be honest about his various researching:
    -- "The Largest historical exampe of a functional European sword I've ever come across in my travels was around 8 pounds... and that was for a massive flamberge bladed two-hander taller than me. (I'm 5'11")" --

    Now, having been in US Army Basic Training, I know what its like to carry around a 7lb length of metal, and its definately no picnic (M16A2) so I'm quite sure weights like this were avoided. The "blood groove" in many swords is in fact to reduce the weight.

    I was prompted by this conversation to do some more research, and I found a site with authentic, battle-used antique swords (ie, NOT remakes/replicas, these are hundreds of years old) and most 1-handed swords were in the 2-3lb range. It didn't list the weight on 2-handed, but given they're not twice the size, its same to presume they're 5lbs and under. One of the claymore the site has was even made out of brass, so would have been much lighter than I realized.

    I apologize for being too general in my statements before.
     
  12. Cudgel

    Cudgel The name says it all

    where was this site with the antiques?
    *drools at the thought of antique weapons*
     
  13. Reiki

    Reiki Ki is everything!

    Just wanted to put in my comments about fighting weapons used on horseback.

    I don't know how many of you can ride horses or have ridden at all, but I work and train Andalusian horses in classical dressage which was & is still the original cavalry and fighting technique used for centuries. [As taught by the Spanish Riding School, and The French Cavalry School at Saumur etc etc etc]

    The Andalusian is one of the world's most ancient breeds of horses that were used in battle and are used to this day in bullfighting and other places where a very strong, highly manouvreable and brave horse is required. Most of the horses used in the Spanish Riding School have some Andalusian blood in them a number of generations back.

    Please take it from me that any long sword that you have to use 2 handed on horseback is NOT a viable weapon!

    :woo:

    No matter how skilled the horseman and how well trained the horse is, it is virtually impossible to weild such a weapon when riding and make decent strokes and move about with an opponent without cutting your horse....

    Funny thing is that horses don't like getting hit by loud clangy things [if wearing armour] ....

    and they hate being hit and hurt by things [if not armoured] so it would be nigh on impossible to keep your horse in the battle once hit by a big sharp sword like this!
     
  14. ShadowDrakken

    ShadowDrakken New Member

    I went to Encyclopedia Britanica (unfortunately requires a subscription to get any detailed information) and used ask.com to find websites for several European museums. I didn't see the URLs due to the confines of ask.com's frames, I'm sorry. I do understand that w/o definate URLs its really nothing more than heresay, so I recommend searching for historical museums sites. Can find quite a lot of information that way.
     
  15. Cudgel

    Cudgel The name says it all

    yeah a two ahnded weapon is an foot mans weapon.

    I think war horses ie big clydesdales, are one tougher, but aht mens little and two war horses were trained to not shy away in a massed battle. Knights used their horses as a weapon.
    granted it owuld take a lot of effort to train a war horse like that.
    Which would explain why there worht more tahn peasants.
    :D

    COOL but andalusians are a light horse for light cavalry and i dont think armored horses.
    But then agin Im not interested to terrbily much in horse back combat. But if you want to elighten us on horseback combat I will shutup and listen.:D


    well you can add the page to your favorites and them use your favorite to go back the page.
     
  16. Epoch

    Epoch New Member

    sword weight

    some of you sre still unsure about the weight of swords that are relatively huge well i posted a link earlier that had pictures and specs about the largest no-dachis (o-dachi) found so far which are in a museum in japan, here is the link -

    http://japantrip.tripod.com/nodachi/norimitsu.html

    on that site it states this 1/4 of the way down the page -

    Total length - 377 cm.
    Nagasa (cutting edge) - 226.7 cm.
    Sori (curvature) - 5.0 cm
    Nakago (tang) - 151 cm.
    Thickness - 2.34 cm.
    Habaki (collar to hold blade in scabbard) - 5.85 cm.
    Weight - 14.5 kgs.

    now i dont know if i am the only one who knows how to change kgs to lbs but 14.5 kgs = 31.967028 pounds (almost 32 pounds). 377cm = 12.3687664 ft. (almost 12 and a half feet.) 377cm = 148.4251969 inches (almost 148 and a half inches.) Keep in mind those measurements are for a no-dachi.

    on this link http://www.deltin.it/swords4.htm in the first row of swords shown there is a picture of a two-handed sword from Venice, Italy numbered 2162. In the last sentence of the specs - "Length overall 162cm. Weight 3700gm." 162cm = 5.314961 feet (63.779527 inches.) 3700 grams = 8.157105 pounds.

    and finally on this link -

    http://www.armsofvalour.com/miva/me...Code=AOVL&Product_Code=54-077&Category_Code=S

    is a picture and description of a tow handed highland sword which is 56 and a half inches long (4.708333 feet) and 12 pounds
     
  17. Epoch

    Epoch New Member

    not much more to say except that people asked for evidence of huge swords which i have provided. for some reason if someone still isnt happy and thinks there is no sword that weighs more than 6 pounds take the time to look through, books, magazines, even on the net and you will come up with more swords then i have provided.
     
  18. Cudgel

    Cudgel The name says it all

    how said swords that weighed more than 6 pounds didnt exist?

    I only said swords of that weight are not used for battle.
    I will concede taht some swords that weighed 8 pounds could have been usd for battle but not a 10lb or heavier one.

    the last sword says shipping weight which includes packaging and for most swords tahts metal rifle case or someover sturdy container. So thats more weight.
     
  19. Epoch

    Epoch New Member

    actually the last sword link that i posted when you buy from them they send what you bought in a cardboard box which has padding around the sword usually bubble wrap. i bought a sword from them a few years back and it didnt come in a metal rifle case it came in a cardboard box that was filled with styrofoam and the sword itself was wrapped up in bubble wrap.. The only way you will get a sword in a metal rifle container that has rubber padding inside is if you were to go to a pawn shop that had a sword and paid the extra $5 or however mch it costs for the metal case. However when you buy a sword from a company or magazine you will never get it in a metal rifle case because the case costs $ to make and the metal case would add $ to the shipping costs and as all of us know there is no need for someone to pay more for shipping if they dont need to. the only other way you would get a sword in a metal case would be if you were to pay a person to handmake you a sword then they would either hand it to you when it was finished or give you a case for it which you might have to ask for.
     
  20. Cudgel

    Cudgel The name says it all

    Iknow of at least one site that sell sword shipped in a rifle case
    http://allsaintsblades.com
    granted his swords are rather light but he ships them in a rifle case
     

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