Yul Gok

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by gemtkd, Feb 18, 2005.

  1. gemtkd

    gemtkd Valued Member

    I am going to Sweden for the Viking International in March. I went to an extra class to get one on one for my patterns. We were going through Yul Gok when the BB who was going through them with me said and I quote "for the sake of the competition cross your hands before executing the first move as it will impress the judges" (line up punch) now I've checked high and ry and I know that officially there is definately no cross. So what I'm asking is, if there is not supposed to be a cross - how would it impress judges at an international comp? I know I wouldn't be impressed if I was judging!!

    Any thoughts? :)
     
  2. Taliar

    Taliar Train harder!

    The only impression that would give is.

    She doesn't know what she is doing!!!!!

    Ask the BB why you should cross your arms, what is the purpose and why its is not part of the 'normal' pattern.
     
  3. gemtkd

    gemtkd Valued Member

    I kinda looked at BB all confused and the BB just said "it's to impress the judges" I know they've done a lot of international comps and in there day were tops, I asked another BB 5th Dan and he said anyone who would vote for me after doing that should be shot. I just don't understand why they would say that. I've never been international and now I'm even more confused about what to expect
     
  4. Taliar

    Taliar Train harder!

    International comps have exactly the same rules as local and national comps, hopefully the only difference is a higher level of competitor (and maybe richer to afford the travel expenses :D ) and a more experienced judge's.

    Just do what you normally do, but harder, faster and better.

    Good Luck :cool:
     
  5. itfengland.com

    itfengland.com New Member

    yeah definitely no cross, the hand should follow the leg outwards. You are judged exactly the same as a local competition, marks are awarded for power, technical content, breath control. Therefore u would lose marks if u executed the 1st move with a cross as it is technically incorrect
     
  6. gaz shaw

    gaz shaw New Member

    i've done part one of my umpires course, and the rules for umpiring is that a point should be taken off for every inncorrect technique and as that would be an inncorrect technique, then it would be losing u a valuable point so dont do it.
     
  7. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    That's what I would do...
     
  8. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member

    I hate to be such an evil-minded person ( "Mois???" :D :Angel: )....
    but is this BB also competing and perhaps wants to see you lose? (Just reminds me of a kitchy karate- kid- type- dojo scene)

    I know, silly me, but what I do suggest is that you go over your form for competition with your immediate instructor and take direction from him/her andthen....

    go to the Vikings... and perform "harder, faster and better". :D
     
  9. Infesticon #1

    Infesticon #1 Majesticon

    Perhaps "for the sake of the competition" they want you to do it wrong?

    I can't think why else.

    Yul Gok is the one that starts by going into sitting stance and focussing for a double punch isn't it?

    surely there's no reason for a cross.
     
  10. Yudanja

    Yudanja Euphoric

    Yup.. thats the one... :)
     
  11. xxblackkatxx

    xxblackkatxx The Gimpy Taekwon Monkey!

    there isn't a cross in the pattern, no need for a cross, and adding a cross won't earn you anything but pain and loss of points.

    the BB who said that you SHOULD cross... well... they obviously have no clue what they're talking about, and should be smacked.



    [and on my own personal note, i'm having a bit of trouble with the palm hooking blocks in the pattern. it just feels really weird to me.. i get the concept of what they're doing -for the most part- , but the preparation and excicution is what's confusing me... any tips?]
     
  12. Juego Todo

    Juego Todo Stay thirsty, my friends.

    You could also ask yourself this:

    "Did the late General Choi Hong Hi (TKD/ITF founder) cross his hands at the start of Yul-Gok Hyung?"

    Ummm...NO!!! If he didn't, nor should you. Hmmm...didn't he create the form himself?!? He'd have known better than all of us.

    Also, I don't think that the BB said it for you to lose intentionally, as someone else had mentioned in passing. You're at an intermediate division (green belt) while he's in the BB division, unless he's just plain old malicious...but let's give him the benefit of a doubt.

    It may be that he's really trying to be helpful and that he actually believes that the hands-cross will win you the division, forget about the rest of the pattern! hehehe

    At your level, just about all of the colored-belt hyungs that you've learned so far do involve crossing the hands at the wrists in the beginning EXCEPT for Tan-Gun/Dan-Gun hyung (both arms pointing rightwards before going into left double-knifehands-guarding-block) and Yul-Gok/Yul-Kok hyung.

    Bottom line...let common sense be your guide.

    Best of luck to you in Sweden :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2005
  13. oni_sensei

    oni_sensei Valued Member

    You forgot Hwa-Rang as well ^_^
     
  14. Taliar

    Taliar Train harder!

    Imagine you have really bad dandruff and your flicking it from your shoulders. :cool:
     
  15. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member


    Perhaps you don't "get the concept" entirely ... and that is why you are having trouble.
    Knowing the application of a technique does help in preparation and execution of said technique.

    In the pattern Yul Gok, the first first hooking block (#15 & 18) was explained by Choi to serve as an guard, as a warning to the attacker who is executing a punch and the second block (#16 & 19) being the grab.

    Remember to perform 15/16/17 in continuous motion.... and 18/19/20 in continuous motion.

    We perform 15/16 and 18/19 in a tension (slow) manner with a snapping middle punch 17, 20 .... your school may be different
     
  16. jms969

    jms969 New Member

    If you have the encyclopedia or the legacy cd's or dvd's they will show you precisely how to do the form... You need to do the form exactly as the General designed it, not as some BB thinks it should be changed. In particular look at the diagram, the footwork is a very important aspect of all of the ITF forms and is very subtle. That will impress the judges, flash added to the forms will definately NOT impress them...

    IMHO

    JMS

    :)
     
  17. Yudanja

    Yudanja Euphoric

    Very good post. Although realizing that if you are competing in a non-ITF event..or an open tournament.. Flash will often win out over a good form anyday.. sad but true.
     
  18. Juego Todo

    Juego Todo Stay thirsty, my friends.

    For some reason, I assumed that GemTKD was a Green Belt, figuring that Yul-Gok was the highest pattern she'd learned up to this point. I didn't realize that she was at least a Red Stripe (back in the late 1970s through to the early 1990s, I recall that Hwarang-Hyung/8th pattern was taught at about the Red Stripe level).

    So, from your reply, I'm thinking it's got to be one of two things nowadays:

    1) Either Hwarang-Hyung is now taught to Green Belts???; or

    2) Red Stripes compete in patterns events using sub-grade hyungs???

    Please advise, as I didn't realize that the curriculum had changed that much.

    Respectfully...
     
  19. Yudanja

    Yudanja Euphoric

    These are the official ITF pattern requirements for advancement to next belt level:
    10th Gup White Belt-- Sagu Jirugi, Sagu Makgi (Four-directionaol Block/Punch)..not really patterns...
    9th Gup Yellow Stripe- Chon-ji
    8th Gup Yellow Belt- Tan-gun
    7th Gup Green Stripe- Do-san
    6th Gup Green Belt- Woh-hyo
    5th Gup Blue Stripe- Yul-gok
    4th Gup Blue Belt- Joong-gun
    3rd Gup Red Stripe- Toi-gye
    2nd Gup Red Belt- Hwa-rang
    1st Gup Black Stripe- Chung-mu
    1st Dan to 2nd Dan - Kwang-gye, Po-Eun Gae-baek
    etc, etc....
     
  20. Juego Todo

    Juego Todo Stay thirsty, my friends.

    Thanks, Yudanja.

    Back in the day in our dojang, both Chon-ji & Tan-gun were learned upon achieving yellow stripe. At every successive level, one more pattern was learned (e.g. To-san was learned at yellow; Won-hyo was learned at green stripe, etc.). The only difference with the current list above is that we were ahead by one.

    The most common pattern performed by red belts at tourneys was Chung-mu & I used to compete with Kwang-gye as a black stripe. Competitors who attempted patterns above their belt level were immediately told by the judges to perform according to their grade. As a black stripe, I was never told to use Chung-mu instead of Kwang-gye as the highest one I was allowed to perform. At the black belt/il-dan grading, Kwang-gye was something we had to perform, not learn after receiving black belt. Upon achieving black belt, we were taught two patterns: 11th (Po-eun) & 12th (Gae-baek).

    Things have changed over the years, it seems. Then again, it could just be variations among dojangs as with other arts. Thanks for bringing me up to speed!

    Sorry about getting off topic. Originally, it was about Yul-Gok!

    Gamsa hamnida...
     

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