Your worst experience(s) of politics in TKD

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by Van Zandt, Jul 5, 2009.

  1. StuartA

    StuartA Guardian of real TKD :-)

    Actually, though I understand trying to avoid a Org bashing thread, I think people/names should be named - as long as its done as part of the discussion. This is how orgs/people get away with things for ever... its like dodgy businesses.. its no use telling you that i got ripped off by a plumber but not telling you the name of them.. you could end up using them as well.. many big companies dont ever change anything until they get some bad press.. orgs are the same.. and people should eb anmed so others can avoid their events/orgs/seminars etc. if they wish.

    Stuart
     
  2. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    You go first then Stu.
    I'd be interested to know which HW champ was gonna come down for a straightener. :)
     
  3. AndyT

    AndyT Valued Member

    Whilst I appreciate Superfoot not wanting to turn this thread into a thread just to be used to bash TKD organisation, I agree with Stuart – if we don’t say who caused the problem/experience being described things won’t change. Also without knowing it could be all too easy for any of us to experience the same issue, with the same people.

    Forewarned is forearmed.....

    Great thread idea.... if we keep it on track :)

    All the best,

    Andy
     
  4. paddy ska

    paddy ska Valued Member

    A while back I named an organisation and all hell kicked up. My Chairman had numerous emails about me, threats of court action and lots of to and fro'ing, and it really wasn't worth the hassle involved.
     
  5. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    It is interesting the whole, 'So and so will turn up to fight and embarrass you in front of the class...'

    Would losing in front of your students really be so bad? Heck I'm guessing every one of us has lost in a tournament in front of students. It didn't lead to a mass exodus.

    Plus many of my students have seen/heard stories about me getting choked out/etc. Again it hasn't lead to a mass exodus. To be perfectly honest I think I'd have a bigger chance of losing students if some challenge match guy showed up and I totally kicked his ass (blood etc) and was obviously out of control/****ed off etc. I could see many of them saying, "Yeah...I don't really want to be around that guy if I can help it..."
     
  6. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    No doubt about it. Just a technical clarification, he went as a citizen of Canada, with a Canadian passport. He was forced to exiled himself from SK in 1972 because of the oppressive military dictatorship that was becoming increasingly more brutal since the coup in 1961 (May 16).
    I believe it may have been a captial offense for a SK to go to NK at the time, but have not had that verified.
    As far as the analogy to the USA goes, one may be labeled a traitor by some or many, the US Supreme Court has ruled that the US Govt can not prevent citizens from free travel.
    In any event, politics as they were & as they will someday be, will most likely label him much more favorably, as in retrospect we see he was a groundbreaker, a pioneer. jmo
     
  7. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Fair comment Stu, and I appreciate where you're coming from. I'd be open to naming orgs so long as it's truthful and objective (i.e. no flaming). I'll drop a line to TKDMitch (topic mod) to make sure he's ok with it.

    Another experience of mine, though it was more to do with egos than warped association politics. Prior to leaving an old club (due to politics) my instructor at the time threatened that anyone who left the club and tried to open up their own nearby would have him to answer to, and that his instructor could get them shot!

    After I left (and all the black belts joined me) and opened up my own club in the same building, he started a smear campaign claiming I'd de-frauded students in the past. I was then harassed by phone calls from his instructor who threatened to sue me for God knows what.

    It's a funny ol' world we live in!
     
  8. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Tell me about it! I divulged some info of an association on MAP, which were already public knowledge, and I received a warning saying I'd be expelled for "breach of trust" if it happened again. I argued my case but was just given another rollocking.

    I respect a person's rank, but I don't respect those who think it automatically denotes unlimited power over junior members of an association. "You have x Dan? Good for you. But don't act like it gives you any real authority. It doesn't."
     
  9. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    Personally I think no good can come from naming names. Note I am over stateside and outside the political sphere of the british isles. So I am saying this as an independent observer. It would probably descend to muckslinging fairly quickly.
     
  10. YoungMan68

    YoungMan68 Valued Member

    True, but America is not Korea, and our neighbor directly to the north is not communist either. That would change things considerably.
    I already consider Choi a pioneer in the sense that he definitely helped spread Taekwondo. I do not consider him one of the premier instructors, because the Chung Do Kwan gave him most of his black belts. He was an exceptional promoter.
     
  11. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    This is a seperate topic & you are right, he was blessed to have many talented soldiers under his command, including some from the CDK. However you may be discounted the fact that he had millions of students around the world in more than 100 countries moving the way he wanted them so much so that the WCs eliminated people for minute technical differences. While he was only 1 of possible 7 Koreans that studied in Japan or abroad & returned to open or run otiginal kwans, some may have been senior to him & more experienced, but his affect & reach far out did the others.
     
  12. StuartA

    StuartA Guardian of real TKD :-)

    LOL... the way it was 'passed' to me makes it difficult to prove and thus could b e considered slander.. still, thats what PMs are for. Im not worried about revealing it to people I trust/know, but wouldnt on a public forum.

    However, I was refering to the orgs being named, in order that they sharpen up their acts. its funny how some many spout the tenets of TKD and conviently forget the first two themselves when required!

    All it takes for bad men to propser is for good men to do nothing!

    Stuart
     
  13. StuartA

    StuartA Guardian of real TKD :-)

    In reality it would all look rather pathetic.. the idea I presume was that as I (a new instructor) was (supposed to be) concerned I may close the school for being worried about losing face in front of everyone.. or perhaps there was some other deluded thoughts in his mind.. I'm not sure really.

    Stuart
     
  14. StuartA

    StuartA Guardian of real TKD :-)

    For some reason, many high dans think they are beyond review for their actions, as in their own orgs they get a way with things for ages due to rank.. until some one leaves that org or sees something from the outside!

    I think if something is the truth, then you have a right to say it.. if the org/rep claims you are wrong.. then let them state a case. Out of the 4 things I mentioned, I have a email of proof for one of them, and lots students who witnessed the other two.

    Didnt Gen Chois manuals have a small section on doing right & justice?

    Of course.. people are also able to not mention names.. (doesnt bother me either way really) if they may get grief etc. - thats polotics lol

    Stuart
     
  15. Lithanwif

    Lithanwif Human Punchbag

    I was kicked out of a federation in Scotland because of something passed to them I posted on here.

    They didnt have the decency to ask me to defend myself, had a closed meeting without my instructor or me, and made my instructor inform me the next time I went training. They didn't even have the decency to call me, they let my wife, my child and I turn up to training.
     
  16. paddy ska

    paddy ska Valued Member

    Feel free to come back to a different org. There are a few Scots instructors on here that would be happy to have you!!!
     
  17. Lithanwif

    Lithanwif Human Punchbag

    Thanks for that sir. I found my new org. I have come home to the UKTA and train with a legend. So it all worked out for the best in the end.
     
  18. paddy ska

    paddy ska Valued Member

    Yeah, i noticed that after I posted (mental note - pay attention!)
    sorry!!!
     
  19. Lithanwif

    Lithanwif Human Punchbag

    No worries. Thanks for the offer though. I just noticed your in coatbridge, just a stone's throw from me. Literally. Who are you training with? After the previous org, most of the peeps I grew up TKD wise split to many and varied organisations. So chances are I know someone who came to you.
     
  20. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Hmmmm... worst experiences on the political side of TKD?

    Here's a few in no particular order

    - I know of a group that for an extra fee will add a Hapkido dan certificate to your Taekwondo dan if you pass the TKD test.

    - There's a group that in the past has issued Kukkiwon look alike dan certificates to students for the KKW fee + markup... students didn't know for years that they weren't from Kukkiwon.

    - As a side line to the above, Kukkiwon merely said "pay us the 'back fees' (including all of the costs of the fake ones) you owe and we will issue you rank at the current level". No action was taken to the offenders by Kukkiwon.

    -I seen many cases of officials at tournaments giving the win to their own students despite the outcome clearly being the opposite.

    -There are quite a few schools who enforce the "don't even look at other arts or you are gone" philosophy and even a major chain around here that will not accept students with prior training in another art. That same chain also requires "personal service" fr advancement (such as lawn trimming and etc.)

    -I've seen senior people leave a group because they didn't get the rank they thought they should hold (without even meeting the minimum time in grade). I've also seen rank given and sold without tests.

    Sure puts a lot in your mind about what we want in a school and how we should run our own places, no?
     

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