Your three techniques.

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Happy Feet Cotton Tail, Jul 1, 2009.

  1. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Cheers Superfoot!

    Would love to see someone do that in person just so I can get an appreciation of the dynamics.
     
  2. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Dean,

    You can [somewhat] get an idea of the dynamics from this video:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwY-5WcE924"]YouTube - Bill Wallace point tips[/ame]
     
  3. chof

    chof Valued Member

    yea thats a great drill, i knew he was throwing a hook kick, another way to practice that is put your foot against the front of a chair low chair recliner, the kind of chair in your living room
     
  4. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    I once trained at a WTF club where I sparred a guy a lot shorter than myself. One week I just dropped axe kicks on his head all night, it was funny. :)

    Next week evry time I tried he reverse side kicked me underneath my jaw, like an uppercut. At the end of the week he was doing that from punching range.

    Brilliant lesson in sparring.

    Not so good for SD because if anyone tries that, or a hook kick, or similar, and is fractionally out in their timing, or the kick isn't a knock out blow, they are left standing on one leg with the other high in the air whilst I've got my bodyweight going straight into them with my arms flailing. At your head.

    Mitch
     
  5. chof

    chof Valued Member

    yea i agree you must have power, but the hook kick is decieving like the hook punch itself and if it hits you on the jaw your out!
     
  6. d0ugbug

    d0ugbug learning to smile

    err if you got a glass jaw maybe
     
  7. d0ugbug

    d0ugbug learning to smile

    Agreed if striking a kick from arms (punching distance) I think the only kick id ever try head hight if I needed it in a real world SD scenario would be a round house even then I would not wait for my opponent to be fully upstanding i.e me and him in a stand off position, id rather wait till he is off balance or I've landed a blow to cause him to huddle over.

    Besides throwing a kick head hight after a few beers is bound to end up wrong ;)
     
  8. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    I'm not questioning the power of the kick, I'm questioning the ability to deliver it, from inside punching range, against an aggressively advancing opponent who will not check their momentum, in a manner that will not leave you flat on your ass under an angry drunken bloke who you've just flicked in the back of the head.

    Whilst his mates start piling in.

    Mitch
     
  9. chof

    chof Valued Member

    the 2nd hook kick he throws is nasty, he has a little space to snap that foot off the ground, the foot is not locked up, actually the position he is in, is perfect for a variation of a turning kick, this guy was the master of a hook kick though, may not be that easy for most!
     
  10. d0ugbug

    d0ugbug learning to smile

    Sounds like a night to remember or forget...
     
  11. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Absolutely agreed :)

    But that video shows a "point fighting, we're static and trading punches situation", not an "an aggressive drunk is bearing down on me and starting to swing" situation.

    Mitch
     
  12. snoog

    snoog Valued Member

    3 techniques

    1 be alert always
    2 make sure to keep the attacker or anyone else in your sights(hence #1)
    3 you fighting for survival so hit hard hit fast is getting crowded make sure the crowd isn't blocking your exit route.

    also i won't say do it or not but for me i keep a weapon on my person and train with my weapon daily just a much as i train my mind and body and skill.:ninja2:
     
  13. Demonfist

    Demonfist Valued Member

    my three is shoot , stab and shoot again..... never mess with someone you don't know. he may have a gun or worst be me who would us it with a second thought.:woo:
     
  14. d0ugbug

    d0ugbug learning to smile

    Yey, thats exactly why good self defence teaching is required to cut out answers and attitude like that

    You just described your self, based on your first answer
     
  15. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    It might be worth mentioning that Bill himself advocates kicking only waist height at maximum. I was showing the photos and videos to demonstrate it is possible to kick from punching range.
     
  16. Dikzzz

    Dikzzz Valued Member

    Interesting discussion.

    Over the years I've fought 1000s of skilled martial artists (and 1000s of unskilled ones too :) ) in highly realistic scenario training, a great many of whom thought that such kicks would work for them.

    A number of factors have stopped them and I can count on one hand the number of times it's happened.
    a) Dynamic distance: People don't generally stand still. Pacing, advancing, pushing, shoving are all common place pre-fight indicators.
    b) Upper body: People without 'real' experience have a great tendancy to go 'upper body' when faced with such a situation. It's easy to confuse dojo ability and belief of what you could and would do; with the realities of life when your backside is trying to chew it's way through your shorts.
    c) Environmental factors. Sure you can kick that high when conditions are favourable, but I would almost guarantee that when it kicks off for whatever reason, it will be under conditions that are least advantageous to you.
    d) Kicking low 'can' work, but why would you if you can hit the head. I've fought some absolutely hardcore thai boxers who can kick the leg all day with ferocious power. And occasionally they've caught me with a huge kick to my unpadded leg. And guess what -it hurts like hell for weeks after, limping, physio to break down the bruising etc. Hasn't ever stopped the fight though.
    e) Despite all the discussions to the contrary, the jaw is not always the target that people think it is. Adrenaline response and pre-fight body settling can cause the jaw to be clenched, dropped towards the chest and the shoulders and arms lifted. Then the forehead area becomes the more viable target.

    This isn't to diss anyones training or point of view. Whenever I go into someones dojo/dojang to teach a F.A.S.T. class, I'm always quick to point out that all the techniques we use can be found in every martial art and that what we teach is not a replacement for their MA training. It's just the ones we use are the highest probability of success for most people.

    But don't just take my word for it. Give me a shout and I can arrange for you to get on a F.A.S.T course with the bulletmen; or we can even come to you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2009
  17. ShiroTora

    ShiroTora Valued Member

    Which is why you back it up with a secondary technique such as a low kick. Not many people can take one of those. And if they fail and it goes to grappling, then you have your choke.

    Of course throws are important, and having a good throw or two can help equalise.

    Gene LeBell made a good point point about grappling:
    "A person can take a kick. A person can take a punch. But can he take being dumped on his head?"

    Though having said that, I was a bouncer for 10 years and hit about 200 people and nobody ever smiled at me after, nor did I ever have to say "Oh Fluck". They usually went down and stayed down. Which is why I and many reality insructors list the KO punch as our primary technique.
    It didn't let Geoff Thomspon down during his career either!


    ST
     
  18. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Good post Dikzzz.

    I have to admit I'm a bit skeptical of the bulletman's ability to simulate a typical opponent you find on the street; that is, someone who isn't wearing a huge padded helmet to protect the face. I have no doubt that my kicks would probably bounce off that helmet; but when I've used head kicks against live opponents on the street, who aren't wearing a helmet, I've found that a heel to the nose or eye socket is usually sufficient to stop the fight.

    A hook punch to the jaw / hook kick to the nose has been my "go to" SD combo for a number of years.
     
  19. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    He often says he trains for that one punch but also follows it up by pointing out that he has a game plan if that one punch doesn't work, if it hasn't put them down then he follows it up with something that will.
     
  20. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    I quite agree that a combination of punches or even one good one is the fastest, safest and easiest way to drop someone but there are still those people out there that just laugh a good punch off. Seen it with someone being hit with a motorcycle helmet, really good hard hit. He just wiped his face and nearly killed the guy that had hit him.
     

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