Your description of Peng?

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by cheesypeas, Aug 27, 2008.

  1. wujidragon

    wujidragon Valued Member

    can't one simply say P'eng is the path of energy from the ground through the body to the point of contact, or issuing point.
     
  2. Puzzled Dragon

    Puzzled Dragon Valued Member

    No. Because there are other ways to the point of contact too, such as an elbow blow or 'an'. 'Peng' is the expanding force, like a beach ball suddenly expanding.
     
  3. Kalamondin

    Kalamondin Valued Member

    Hi all,

    Nice topic! I've heard pung energy described as an upward, buoyant energy, like water in the ocean keeping boats (or rubber duckies) afloat. Push a rubber ducky under water, and it will pop back up again, not just because the air is less dense than water, but because the water is kind of resisting it. (More clear when you are trying to push a beach ball under water.)

    Here's my current understanding: pung is buoyant, expansive, tends to rise upwards (though the application can be used in any direction). Pung is one of the central energies of tai chi and infuses the form with structure, much the way the air that fills a car tire helps to shape the wheel. No air = flat tire. No pung = limp tai chi form.

    Apprentice, in case this is confusing: I've been talking about the energy of pung, not ward off left/ward off right. The energy of pung fills every movement in the form (to various degrees), just like your car tires are always inflated whether you're accelerating, turning, or braking. It's particularly clear to see in ward off left/right though, as the arm rises up, one can use that rising energy to connect, deflect, break...

    But back to, "What is it?" I think it's a natural result of being relaxed and allowing the qi to flow without restriction. When that happens, the body can feel relaxed and soft inside, and yet, using pung energy, one can still hold a very solid ward off end posture that a partner cannot make fold or collapse.
     
  4. wujidragon

    wujidragon Valued Member

    What you are describing is not p'eng based on my understanding. What you are describing is expansion of qi. p'eng is the ground path from ground to point of contact. if you have expansion of qi you have to have it do one of a couple things. expand as you describe from the dan tien to the point of contact and to the ground, connecting the two. or from the ground to the point of contact, which is slower. but, either way p'eng has to have a ground connection based on my experience.
     
  5. piratebrido

    piratebrido internet tough guy

    Peng is an upwards motion.
     
  6. wujidragon

    wujidragon Valued Member

    From the ground. :)
     
  7. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

  8. wujidragon

    wujidragon Valued Member

  9. cheesypeas

    cheesypeas Moved on

  10. unfetteredmind

    unfetteredmind Valued Member

    Isn't that shwing? :)
     
  11. cheesypeas

    cheesypeas Moved on


    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..:evil:
     
  12. wujibu

    wujibu Valued Member

    Within the context of Chen style, peng is considered to be an outward force that is expressed and radiates around the whole body, as opposed to a specific movement. Peng should be expressed in every movement (including roll back). :woo:
     
  13. cheesypeas

    cheesypeas Moved on

    That all jins are peng based is undisputed.... no master/grandmaster that I have encountered to date has ever been given a definitive answer to the question.."What is peng"?


    I shall probably default to the esteric description of "bombastic bamboo power" as it makes as much sense as anything else atm. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2008
  14. wujidragon

    wujidragon Valued Member

  15. wujidragon

    wujidragon Valued Member

  16. old palden

    old palden Valued Member

    Not all of us are struggling with this.

    It's actually simple at its core and is only made complex by people's determination that it be so. Most of the answers on this thread are clear and correct, and while there are minor semantic contrasts between them, they reflect a common theme.

    No master/grandmaster that I have encountered to date has been unable or unwilling to give a definitive answer to the question: "What is peng?"
     
  17. jalan7

    jalan7 Valued Member

    Peng

    Hi Everyone,


    Years ago I read a description of Peng Jin by a Taijiquan teacher, Master T.T. Liang.
    He describes it as "the water holding up the hull (bottom) of a boat".

    At the time I read this many years ago I wondered why he didn't say that Peng Jin was like the hull of a boat - but like the water that holds it up. Now I understand.
    But at that time I thought that the boat itself was more like Peng because it had an arc/circular shape which supports itself, it could rotate and move according to the change in the water but keep it's shape. But then my understanding of Peng was too stiff. The boat doesn't flex and change shape but Peng does. (And of course the boat is inanimate and has no root.) Now it makes sense to me that Peng is like the water supporting the boat.

    Recently I discussed with Sifu the feeling in push hands of the wave. He challenged me to redefine Peng in my mind to accomidate this feeling. Days later I remembered this definition I had read by Master Liang and started thinking. But there is one thing I would add to explain it more. The surface of the water has the right characteristics to describe Peng, but it is flat. The Taiji body is more like a sphere. So I would say that Peng in the Taiji body is like the planet Earth. A sphere covered in water that can rotate, tilt slightly and change the shape of it's surface while keeping the centre. Possibly the Taiji body is even more flexible than the Earth - like a sphere of water. I don't know - I've never tried to push the Earth. (ha ha).

    Also it is interesting that when this feeling emerges in Push Hands that it is not inside one person's body but is in the joining of both people. So the description of Push Hands sometimes used: "learing to harmonize with your partner and with yourself" becomes more clear and more important at this point of Push Hands development. Really it is like the bodies of the two partners become like the two halves of the Yin Yang (Taiji symbol). When they fail to stay connected then one person is moved out/ thrown out by the inability to adapt to the constant change of Yin and Yang. In this way we are really exploring the Art of Taijiquan. Very little power is needed to be used because it is as natural as the rising and setting of the Moon, or a tree being uprooted by a tornado. Interesting. I hope to understand more in the future.


    Best
     

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