Your best guard pass

Discussion in 'Ju Jitsu' started by sliver, Sep 13, 2005.

  1. sliver

    sliver Work In Progress

    Hey everyone, was wondering what method you have the most sucess with passing a closed gaurd. I was rolling with someone who had impossibly strong legs yesterday, and just couldn't break him open no matter what I tried-single arm, double arm, "wedging," standing... The guys gaurd was like iron. Admittedly, he did do a good job constantly threatening me, and not just letting me foccus on trying to pass, so kudos to him, it was a good roll. Any input you can give to methods you've had a lot of luck with is appreciated. Please be specific for me, set ups you use, keys for timing etc. as I would love to have something new to try and supprise my partner with next class. Thanks!
     
  2. dbmasters

    dbmasters Valued Member

    The ones I have best luck with is jabbing my elbows into their thighs...unless they have conditioned those pressure points, it works OK, it's very uncomfortable to say the least. Also, the "can opener" (or whatever it's called) works well, stand up if you can, grab their head and pull it forward...hard...
     
  3. sliver

    sliver Work In Progress

    Thaks DB, I tried that, I call it the "wedge" basicly you drive you knee into their sacrum and use your elbows to pry their legs apart? It's usually one of the first methods I go for as it's generally effective and safe for the guy trying to pass, but I had no luck at all with it in this case. He didn't respond to the pain of driving my elbows into his inner thighs, and kept the gaurd locked tight. I might give the "can opener" a try, as I've never used that one. Can you give me a bit more detail on it?
     
  4. dbmasters

    dbmasters Valued Member

    Oh, that's "the wedge", the elbow thing? OK, I never knew a name for it, I just know it works until your are rolling with someone that is used to it, it doesn't work on me much anymore, but when somebody does hit that right spot it is annoying as heck.

    The "can opener" (not sure of a real name, thats what I call it) is pretty easy if you get the reach.

    When you are in the closed guard, get good posture, pressing on their stomach and trying to get on your feet. When there grab around their head and pull their chin toward their chest, and the pressure on their neck makes it nature to release the guard just to relieve the pain in their neck (you are then official a pain in the neck :) Once their feet let loose have your way...

    It has not worked all the time for me, but given the right circumstances, it's worked well. But, don't grab behind the very back of their head, because somebody with a strong neck can stop it, but if you go over the back part of the top of their head it gives you better leverage...depending on the amount of sweat involved :)

    Myself, I am pretty good at holding guard I think, and OK at passing guard, but once I am out thats where I get lost, but, well, thats why I am still a white belt in JuiJitsu.
     
  5. Ad McG

    Ad McG Troll-killer Supporter

    The elbows thing just doesn't work on people who are any good or can stand any kind of pain, and it gives them set-ups for attacks if they can break your posture which shouldn't be too hard whilst you're doing that. The can opener is very good, if you can't reach just stack them up more. However, it is illegal in many grappling tournaments as it puts a lot of shearing force on the neck/spine.
     
  6. Yukimushu

    Yukimushu MMA addict

    I'm abit weary if certain guard passes; if your not sat up straight then your just begging to get triangled.

    The most common form of guard pass has to be the classic knee into the middle of the butt; your other leg stretched out, lean back and press the leg down at the knee.

    Once the guard is broken, pin the knee down with either your leg or arm, then move through the legs into side control.
     
  7. Slindsay

    Slindsay All violence is necessary

    Keep it up guys, I'm taking notes here :D
     
  8. dbmasters

    dbmasters Valued Member

    Not to mention it's hard to keep your arms placed properly to do it for any length of time if they are fighting for your arms too...I just mention it because it has worked for me, and continues to in some situations, it all depends, if it does not work right away, one has to immediately move to another technique...

    I have no knowledge of what is legal or not in tournaments, so you might well be right, I train mostly M.M.A. type stuff, not for style-specific tournaments...good info to have though, thanks.

    Very true, it's a classic cuz it works...drop that knee after puishing on it and those legs flop open with little prob...
     
  9. Jutsuka

    Jutsuka New Member

    I agree with Yukimushu. Place your knee against their bum, lean back and turn and put your leg out 90 degrees. Then you can slide their knee down your leg to trap it, "swat-the-fly", then mount and cover. Or slide your arm back to their ankle (on the side of your raised leg), then pull that leg in front of you and push it into their body, swat-the-fly to trap their legs then move into the mount position.

    "swat-the-fly" is what we call when you flick your leg out and over the uke to trap their legs, when you break out of a closed guard position. If the knee comes over first you can quite easily be pushed off your opponent. However if you flick you foot over first and stomp the ground there is no way an opponent can stop that legfrom trapping them.

    Damn I love jujitsu. :D
     
  10. Goju

    Goju Yellow Belt

    Since I'm new to jiujitsu and my guard passes are still pretty weak, I usually rely on the elbows to thighs thing not working. I try to dig my elbows in and it never works, so I wait for the triangle and the second I feel the leg move I pull my head out and pass around the outside, taking side control. No, it's not a safe or smart method against someone who's really good, but until I get a little better at passing the guard it should suffice. Other than that I usually try to pass the guard by standing up first, then working the pass from there, which is working out for me for the time being.
     
  11. Punch-Kik-Choke

    Punch-Kik-Choke Banned Banned

    I'll share a cheap trick for n00bs that comes in real handy in this type of situation.

    It's called the "Knee-rape" (I didn't come up with the name)

    Here's how you do it:

    put your hands, thumbs up, into your opponenents armpits. keep your arms straight and push away. You wont get armbarred when doing it with good posture.

    Stand up and stack. keep his upper-back pinned down with your hands in his armpits and get to your feet. make him as uncomfortable as possible.

    Walk your legs up to his back, you're still standing up and stacking him, just get your feet closer to his back.

    Manuver one knee (you choose) between his legs. Right to his butt-crack :eek: I'm serious.

    Both feet flat-footed on the floor. Sit straight down.

    His guard will open (or he'll scream and spaz out :D )

    Start the pass to side control with the knee that is already up.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2005
  12. Goju

    Goju Yellow Belt

    Ya, I've seen that before but never by that name, works well when the guy is working his guard high up on your torso, i.e his legs are just under your arms.
     
  13. Covaliufan

    Covaliufan Valued Member

    My best is an extremely basic one, though hard to describe. Forgive my long windedness:

    1. Achieve good posture, while placing one hand on your opponent's stomach/lower chest and one on a hip to prevent him from sitting up and breaking your posture

    2. Let's say your right hand is the one on the belly: now place your right foot on the mat by his right hip

    3. Trickiest part: stand up without moving your left foot from where it is on the mat behind you, by means of rotating your toes outward/heel inward as you stand. Done correctly, this accomplishes two things:
    a. It keeps your feet staggered, right foot near him, left foot far away from him, so that you're difficult to sweep.
    b. It allows or requires you to turn your right hip into him. That's the really important bit of this pass, turning yourself so that instead of being belly to crotch, you're now hip to crotch.

    4. The fact that you're a. standing and b. turned so your hip is facing his crotch forces him to reach much farther with his legs to maintain a closed guard. If he has short legs, his guard will open already at this point. If his legs are longer take your left hand or elbow and push down on his right knee (which is on your left side), easily opening his guard.

    Important philosophical point!!!!! I hate people who pass guard by jamming their elbows into people's thighs thinking they're doing a real guard pass, or justifying the technical value of this "pass" by saying they're using pressure points. These people suck. Yes, that means there are people in this very thread that I think are doing sucky guard passes, because I'm a judgemental jerk. Yet you'll note that an important part of this pass involves pushing down on the person's knee, possibly with the elbow! The difference is in this case you've created a mechanical advantage by changing your relative positions, so that the person's guard you're passing does not have the leverage to resist even a relatively small amount of force, rather than just driving your elbows into the persons thighs until he gets tired or can't stand the pain.

    5. A lot of things. You've just opened his guard, and can pass in various ways. I can think of at least three off the top of my head. This post is too long as it is, so I'll leave it there.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2005
  14. faster than you

    faster than you Valued Member

    1.bear-hugging both legs, dipping a shoulder into the gut, the circling to side-control
    2. scooping both legs, stacking the opponent, then circling to side-control
     
  15. fanatical

    fanatical Cool crow

    Variation of the one above. Keep your hands on his hips and keep them in control so he can't move easily.

    Sit up properly and get your base, put a knee right against the opponents tailbone and sit back, you don't need to stack him and stick it..ehm.. inn his ass.. like mentioned above. When sitting back, if done well this will break his legs apart and quickly press one of his knees to the mat.

    Keep control of that knee and quickly slide your elbow and shoulder under the other leg and stack him over that leg. With a gi, you can grip his collar to add to the control and remember to always control that other leg and keep it pinned to the mat so he can't triangle you.

    Now simply walk around while stacking him and slip your head past to get to the side.

    I should actually get some pictures of this, but I'll do it some time I've actually got a place to train at again. Which won't be for another month *sigh*
     
  16. fanatical

    fanatical Cool crow

    Also. A quick one and not very detailed, but..

    Stand up in the guard. And if you can grab both ankles and avoid being sweeped, quickly pull them both to one side and past you and just drop into side control.

    Oh wait.. this included breaking the guard open.. oh well :p haha
     
  17. mhyst

    mhyst New Member

    Why not try turning behind you and taking a lock? Just turn to the side, hook their heel in your elbow and turn back around. If it doesn't make them let go of their guard then oh well, you've got a lock!
     
  18. dbmasters

    dbmasters Valued Member

    We worked on one today I forgot to mention earlier that we have done and it's really cool.

    Stack them up, pinch your knees against his hips on either side, have one foot a little ahead of the other, then twist toward the side that has the foot further in front, it breaks them almost every time...then then you whip their leg around and grab a knee mount and rain down fists on their mellon...if it doesn't open their gaurd, you often have a great opening to rain down fists on their mellon from their...

    It works great. I have a pretty strong guard myself and it break me almost every time, some adjustments have to be made for height differences and such, but it's a good pass that doesn't generally put you in a position for a possible triangle.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2005
  19. Garibaldi

    Garibaldi Valued Member

    Try what jutsuka said while standing as well.

    As you stand, place one knee into their butt and move your other leg out to the side so the thigh/knee doesn't provide any support for their legs.

    Press down and out on their knee - You can then use your whole body weight to push against the one leg. Should normally open a strong closed guard. As it opens keep the pressure on and you can work the normal knee over thigh passes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2005
  20. sliver

    sliver Work In Progress

    Some great suggestions here everyone, I really appreciate the input. Have to try the erm...butt rape thing tomorrow, might work against the guy I'm having trouble passing. The standing passes seem to work best for me so far, so long as I can avoid the sweep. Man I love jiu jitsu. I just wish it got more credit for being the scientific, thinking man's art that it is. Be well all.
     

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