Ok, for anyone who wants to post clips of their own training, but is either nervous or not sure where to go.... http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1120405#post1120405 It's in the process of being made a sticky in the IMA forum. I look forward to seeing some more clips of other members training! James
That has good point from what i can see. Well i mean can not tell from the coat an need to see the knee to elbow ratio. TJB That was excellent on Middleways part just what i used to do when started trying to develop whip fajing in my taichi. The step in time with the release is the hardest thing to get an than the elbow rotation with the knee to lower leg(calf area). Requires allot of practice. Also, i used to put the belt around my middle stomach so that i could practice breathing at same time so i would learn not to totally release my abdomen muscles in either direction. Doing that together helped me the most on form structure. Using something as likened to wooden dummy form applying the technique on to test the from. TJB a well like i said not able to see much, but are you trying to add more rolling torso or what from Chen. Or, is it a realing silk thing you want? I say that cause that is usually what most Yang ppl add, is more rolling torso or realing silk effect. If ever get camera i will post.
Dunno really, maybe, but I'm not bothered about where it comes from, Chen, Wu, whatever, it's all Taiji to me, I'm not really a 'yang' person either. I guess I'm just playing with fajin, spiralling, rotating, different intents, jins etc trying to find what works for me, what gives more power, what variations I can do from the standard set... I practiced the whole lot fast again, but left-handed, the following day and it was very different. Hopefully we'll film it again when I'm better and you can all compare/contrast the two versions. It's all a big experiment to me...
Kinda off topic.. Just watched these two Chen style forms.. In this one the leg movemnets are pretty simmilar to what I do in my Yang form, and basically looks quite normal to me. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJuudvIMZs0"]Chen Taiji (Chen Xiaowang) - YouTube[/ame] In this one, the guys knees at certain points of the form are all over the place, is this normal for Chen style. Is this not quite bad for the knees, and does it not go against the principle of moving from the centre i.e. moving from the knees instead? [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubUcKOmWrlc"]Chen Taiji - YouTube[/ame]
Hi inthespirit, Sometimes in Chen style, there is an idea of the body being comprised of eighteen energetic spheres - such imagery can lead to all of the jointed areas of the body being treated as effective ball and jocket joints. This is an issue that some practitioners have specifically addressed. Hong Junsheng talked of being scientific and selective - updating knowledge in line with increased scientific understanding, which may be why he preferred to describe the body as being like a gearbox. Also - in the rules defined by Chen Fake (developer of the xin jia / new style) there is a statement that the knees must only ever move up or down - I think this is a reference to the knee only ever being a hinge and never playing sideways. The sideways play of the knee that some Chen stylists do is a bit strange - they sometimes use their knee to apply sideways force to another's knee in push hands. I believe it is always better to align the toes of that leg in the desired direction of pressure first (turning the whole leg from the hip joint), but then the leg does start to more closely resemble the kou bu (hooking step) or bai bu (swinging step) of Baguazhang.
Interesting info Joanna, thanks. I'm guessing there are probably more knee injuries amongst Chen practitioners. Looks pretty though.
Yeah, I've always learned that the knees should always point the same direction as the toes. The knees are a hinge joint, and that's all. Just looking at the way that they're built should make that obvious.
the first clip is chen xiao wang, his might be considered a more technically correct demonstration of chen style. the second clip is george xu, and though i have not trained with him directly i have friends who have and say that he is very good. even though he does collapse his knee a lot of the time. i mentioned it to my friends, they said "you tell him and see what he does...." kind regards, timo
Hey Timo, You should ask George Xu, if your around the area and can be bothered. Would be interesting to hear his comments on this.
no no, i'm nowhere near him. the friends i spoke of were organising a seminar for him to lead. and apparently george xu is quite happy to demonstrate his ability. kind regards, timo
He seems to be a very skilled practitioner - he's done some excellent and very martial Chen style applications videos. But what can you do? Another skilled fighter and eminent teacher I know of doesn't reel silk properly in one of his hands (only one - the other is fine), but who is going to argue when he can get his stuff to work anyway? I believe that Bruce Lee once said that twisting / limb rotation only counts for around 20% of your power. Now that's a lot to throw away if you're small, but if you're big and powerful enough to take out most people anyway... No one achieves perfection - even the skills and alignments we come to take for granted need constant renewal, whether our techniques still work or not.
yup, if you've got it you've got it. all of the top guys i've met have had expressed the same power; it's felt the same being on the receiving end. and they've all had differences in the way they've moved. some small and within good technique, some big differences that you think wouldn't be technically correct. kind regards, timo
Interesting indeed... I guess there is always glucosamine and knee replacements.. woo hoo.. I'm gonna give old woobley knees a try in my form today, see if I notice anything... other than pain.. But then again, some styles of Silat do some crazy stuff to their knees and apparently Indonesians have some of the lowest incidence of knee problems in the world.. or so someone told me.. go figure..
the most important point is that who ever is teaching you has got it. and can show you the way. regardless of anything else. kind regards, timo
Twisty knees equals bad in my book. You may get away with it for years, but it's when you're getting old the damage will come out, when it's too late. Conversely, some twisting may actually strengthen the muscles around the knees and make them more resilient long-term. I also read somewhere that Asian's have tougher knees than westerners genetically. So maybe us westerners should stick to non-twisting...? I also wonder if it's the 'wushu'/PRC influence that makes people do stuff like that with their knees... whatever, I don't trust it hey-ho, I prefer my way of doing it anyway, so what do I really care? I started off with rotten knees and they just get stronger each year rather than weaker! PS Just watched the two Chen clips. First one, excellent form, stable and consistent issuing of power. Knees look strong and connected, even though they are not always lined up vertically. Second one, rubbish by comparison to the first imo - regardless of how a good an MAist he is, his form looks unstable, his feet are floating and I'll lay money most of his power comes from his upper body rather than his legs. He looks like he's showing off to me (I'll be in my bunker )
No Retreat, No Surrender! :woo: :woo: :woo: :woo: :woo: Stitch this! :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:
hi tjb, i understand what you mean. chen xiao wang has such clean movement. george xu is much more elaborate. i used to be alot more judgemental as a chen stylist; you'd go to competition and see lots of people who were equally elaborate. imo they had not done enough lao jia yi lu, xin jia is so much cooler to watch and practice. but all those extra circles and spirals.... you need a really solid foundation for your mind/body to understand what the hell is going on. and if you don't... well it looks impressive to the uninitiated but there is no whole body movement. same for when people do all that fa jing punching and they end up vibrating their whole body for ages... you know that clips aren't always what they seem. my friends have trained with george and i'd trust their opinions. but i know what you mean about that clip kind regards, timo
