WTF or ITF

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do Resources' started by ronmeister, May 12, 2003.

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ITF VS WTF

  1. WTF < ITF

    58.3%
  2. ITF < WTF

    50.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    No this is really not true. The ITF did original TKD from the OhDokwan, which was the military gym. Now some did study in the other kwans, but their indoctrination into TKD occurred in the OhDokwan in the 1950s. The WTF tournament rules came from the JiDokwan in the 1960s. members of all the kwans did eventually join the WTF & KKW. The kwans were forced to retire in 1978.
     
  2. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    There are really no differences from 1 MA to another for the non-student. Then to the student, we tend to accent the differences, so there can be huge differences. But in the end isn't it all kicking & punching, with throws, locks takedowns etc thrown in. Seek the school with the better instructor, not the group, org, style. The teacher is what is most important. I am sure the KKW produces great teachers as well as all orgs can & do.
     
  3. Kwan Jang

    Kwan Jang Valued Member

    I guess it really comes down to whether you feel the true founders of TKD are the Kwan leaders who helped to grow and evolve the art or the politician who used his military position to strong arm the Kwans to go along with him. I have problems with both KKW/WTF and with ITF, but would consider that at least WTF is full contact rather than semi-contact. Choi did help with the unification of the Kwans and the organization and spread of TKD. Many on the WTF side of the fence play this down, as well as spread the ridiculous propagnda that TKD is this ancient Korean combat system. On the ITF side of the fence, many try to make Choi out to be far more of an influence than he really was other than ODK.
     
  4. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Well prior to original TKD being introduced to NK in 1980, they did KyukSul. In fact the 1st batch of NK instructors to graduate the special 7 month course the ITF did there, taught by GM Park Jung Tae, from feb to sept of 1981, contained experienced martial artists. Many KyukSul instructors from NK taight in eastern bloc communist countries prior to TKD, Poland being one that has been strongly documented. Once original TKD took hold in NK, they dispatched TKD teachers worldwide to countries they maintain diplomatic relationships there. So the above quoted sources do not include this info.
     
  5. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    No I would say that it really depends on what you define TKD as. if it is a generic umbrella term for Korean striking arts, then yes. You can also look at it as a specific KMA developed in the ROK Army by Gen Choi & his soldiers in the OhDokwan or a martial sport. Please remember the Kwans were really just doing Karate. It was the movement by the OhDokwan & JiDokwan that were responsible for the 2 types today.
     
  6. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Yes. Gen Choi 1st went to NK in 1979. He started communication with them some years earlier. He moved to Canada & once he got Canadian citizenship he was free to do more, as he lived in a true democracy, as SK was until the 90s, run by military dictators (Park, Chung Roh) till Kim Yong Sam was voted in, followed by Kim Dae Jung. When Choi 1st went to NK, it was I think a capital offense for anyone from SK to go to NK. As a Canadian citizen he was shielded from that, even though the KCIA was trying to take him out. Now he can't really be blamed as he was one of the few Koreans to ever be reunited with his family, due to the tragic & complete seperation with no contact whatsoever between the 2 Koreas. he also was able to open up NK to may outsiders & have them be introduced to many places due to TKD. For this he was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. It can be said he 1st opened the doors & windows to the north 21 years before the SK President Kim Dae Jung went there in 2000 with his "Sunshine Policy" that earned him the Nobel Peace Prize. A lot of good came out of Choi's work. Someday he will be credited by the true recording of history as a great Korean patriot.
     
  7. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    No doubt about it!
     
  8. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    True the rules developed by the Jidokwan to be different from the Japanese resulted in fast kicking & quick stepping, as an unintended benefit of said rules. The rules make the compeition & players adapt or they lose.
    As far as the DPRK goes, the food situation is so bad, the generations are inches shorter & weigh so much less than their southern cousins! Terrible
     
  9. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    I agree with 1 exception, the NK team members are not allowed to be interviewed, especially in SK, what are you thinking? That is so false
     
  10. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Mr. Chang Ung is not a master, nor a TKD man. He has just received a PhD from a NK University for sports & he was a NK Basketball player & coach, but not TKD. He is also an IOC Member.
     
  11. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Sorry but you were told wrong. He left due to the pressure put on him by the SK military dictator to use his TKD students as KCIA members to be dispatched around the world. His relations with the dictator were strained & getting worse. He fled to Canada to avoid political persecution, not so much related to TKD, as Gen Choi was an influential leader of SK, not just TKD. The dictator Gen Park killed & imprisoned many political disadents. Choi fled to escape those possiblities. When he fled, they held his wife & children hostage, as he left alone for a TKD trip to avoid suspicion. Once gone they held his family to try to force him to return. Of course he never did. GM Jhoon Rhee used his TKD connections in the Dominican Republic to get that Country's president to get Mrs. Choi out to Japan. Once there they got her to North America. Then eventually seeing the parents would not return, they probably let his children out as a good will gesture, as making orphans out of them was not too politically viable. They also offered him prestigous positions, like an ambassadorship of his choice & even Foreign Minister.
     
  12. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Again you really must check your history. he did not go to NK till 7 years after he left SK. His problems were because he opposed the military dictator Gen Park, who refused to turn the govt of SK back to the people. he suspended the constitution, ended elections & ruled for 18 years till he was shot by his own KCIA director on Oct 26, 1979. Then two of his hencemen followed. NK & SK are still technically in a state of war, as their civil war did not end with a treaty.
     
  13. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Well I think those talks must have been real brief, especially if this was in SK. The team members are segragated & closely watched. Now it is possible to engage in casual conversation depending on the locale, with more freedoms coming over the years.
     
  14. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    True
     
  15. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Nor is your attempt to clear it up. Choi's son was listed on the trademarks in Canada & chose not to fight Tran in court. So now the trademarks in Canada are null & void. Trademarks are mostly governed by countries, which each nation having their own registration & trademark process. So that is a 100 plus seperate nations battles that no one is doing.
     
  16. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    So basically he had a karate education. TSD is a Korean way of saying karate as the Koreans did not want to associate with the Japanese after the occupation ended due to all the harm Japan inflicted on Korea. Both the ITF & WTF or KKW have their roots in Karate. The ITF started to distance themselves from karate via their creation of the 1st Korean forms, called the Chonji forms or the Chang Hon set. The WTF did it with the use of the sparring tournament rules. The ITF & KKW have done additional things to continue that distancing. TSD is karate!
     
  17. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member


    This is so true & actually makes it laughable for non-WTF or non-KKW memebrs to claim that this type of TKD is not TKD. They may not be original TKD, but they are entitled to be called TKD since they accomplished so much with the name they took from the TKD pioneers back in the 70s. The WTF should be commended for spreading & making TKD so popular around the world as a martial sport, even gaining official olympic sport status, which so few other sports can claim & only 3 other fighting sports can boast of.
     
  18. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    The WTF is not a style it is a sports governing body in charge of olympic TKD. Some Korean MA schools that particiapte & use WTF tournament sparring rules have kept the techniques pretty much the same from Karate, with of course the main exception of tournament rules. So one can say some schools do Korean Karate but enter into tournaments &/or follow WTF sports rules. The same can be said of schools that simple do the Chonji forms karate style. The main difference between the ITF & WTF as governing bodies is that as mentioned above, the WTF does just olympic TKD sports rules. The ITF oversees the development, spread & certification of all aspects of ChanHon or original TKD, including but not limited to the ITF tournament rules, which BTW competes in up to 5 areas, power, sparring, flying breaks, forms & SD routines.
     
  19. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    No it probably means that the WTF rules have made TKD kicking become faster & quicker. The quick feet & stepping is needed to score in this couter-attack type of match. So the rules have help the art evolve in this area. However many schools still do basics the way they were in 40s, 50s & 60s Korea, which is basically Korean Karate, which is not in & of itself a bad thing.
     

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