okay, I post this after watching the last two days of Olympic TKD sparring AND thinking it is a great improvement on previous years (from an ITF'er/Ch'ang Hon'er POV of course), I am wondering what WTF'ers think of this.. as even though the body kicks need power.. the fighters are protected by the hogu's and now head kicks are scoring a hell of a lot more (which is great btw), they are now mostly touch contact and lack the power that previous head kicks needed in WTF. All in all, with the light head kicks and body protection (hogu's) can WTF still claim to be a full contact sport? Now I know the "they can if they want to" kick full power to the head argument will come up, but TBH.. no one is doing that and these guys/girls are the Worlds Best... so can WTF'ers really still claim to be a "Full Contact" sport? As it stands, I have seen harder head kicks at the recent (ITF) tournaments I have been to recently and that is billed as 'semi-contact'. Just posted this for the sake of discussion.. as I said here (and in other posts).. it seems the WTF have really made things better by the rule changes and I have enjoyed it a lot and I think they have done a great job on all fronts. Stuart
Being an ITF practitioner I am not one qualified to comment but I must agree with the head kick statement. I have seem 3 points be awarded for a toenail looking like it hit a head guard. I don't think in ITF that would be considered a head shot. What I do want however is some cans of the magic spray that, even through a dobok, seems to cure an injury in a few seconds!
From what I've seen today, they seem very reluctant to commit any real power to their techniques in case they miss and are countered. None have gone for a knock out blow or attempted to make a full contact attack, so I would say no, they are no longer a full contact sport.
The players are chosing to use semi-contact because the rules allow for less effort to make a score, however the rules still allow for full contact. So yes I think it still can claim to be full contact. I personally think the rules have made an already ridiculous rule set even sillier. I'm not really a sports fan, so I haven't been following the games., but I tried to watch a few matches, and I was honestly disgusted.
I think it's this high ppressure stakes of the Olympics. before no one attacked at all. now your chances of getting countered to the body are less thanks to the e protector. but people are still hesitant to over commit to anything- remember as well that you have been watching the lighter divisions! things will heat up tonight
I think it is too early to tell. I think we are in the process of change. The change seems to be, from my limited viewing to make it more spectator friendly. However it is still full contact, as it is allowed to the body & head. But with these new rule changes, just touching the head scores & scores extra points. So eventually the dynamics will change, as rules I think dictate strategy. I was under the impression that unless they allow more hands, the action would not increase. But these rule changes have definitely have pump up the action levels. Now I see what GB was talking about with the rule changes as a justification for leaving Mr. Cook out. It looks like a new game to an extent. So power kicking full contact, with some reverse punches to the chest scoring & the BIG prize for touching the head with the foot. (Connection to Taek Kyon anyone?)
Because the ruleset encourages quick low-impact shots, any gym that aims to produce top level or even competitive WTF TKDers will have to adapt their instruction to this ruleset. This means that WTF TKD is probably doomed to head down the path already trodden by fencing, all the fight/combat relevance will be stripped from the art (nothing against fencing, I know it takes great athleticism and skill). I think gaining entry to the Olympics is having a drastic (and in my view detrimental) impact on how TKD develops. To be honest it is really just speeding up a process that is already underway, TKD generally isn't the art of choice for those who want to learn to fight. Not saying it cant be used to knock someone out, just that people that want to get into a sport with heavy striking generally wont pick TKD to train in. When your art attracts those that aren't interested in contact, reality tends to follow perception. Perhaps there needs to be different rulesets in the same way that boxing has amateur and professional competitions. There could be the Olympic ruleset with points for touching your opponent, then there could be a full-contact ruleset as well. I hope that TKD regains an appreciation for contact, but I think entry to the Olympics has all but destroyed any chance of that happening (at least in WTF).
Full contact to hogu scores 1 point and a reverse hook kick that brushes by an helmet scores 4, thats an extreme dilution of a sport that claims to be full contact imho, the replay video killed a lot of energy that had built for many minutes also but I expect the WTF except there art is up for scrutiny and examination if they want to remain, personally I feel this is far removed from the tkd introduced to the games
I'm not really into martial arts as sport full stop. But I did do WTF Taekwondo as a teenager so I've got a grasp of how much power good TKD people can generate in their kicks. I didn't see any of that yesterday. All credit to Jade Jones. She's a great athlete, has clearly put in a lot of effort and has a lot of skill. But I don't really know if she can kick particularly hard because I didn't see any of that happening yesterday at all. I don't really understand the rationale of awarding 3 points for merely touching the opponent's head. I don't doubt my old TKD instructors would be turning in their graves or dobok's respectively. Its like touch rugby. To me it just made the whole thing a bit farcical. I don't like touch contact karate either but at least in that they have to make the techniques look powerful (even if they're not really). Maybe they should re-brand it as 'Touch TKD'? I didn't mind the stoppages to re-examine scoring techniques on video, I thought that worked OK. I was a bit perplexed though when one of the few headshots that actually had some power was declined by the judges on the video re-run!??? Finally, a question. As an outsider I've never understand the reason for the arms being down by their sides. I remember TKD people being unimpressed by it at the 1988 Seoul Olympics. But yesterday the commentators kept referring to it as a 'guard'. Are they now doing that prevent access to the pressure sensitive pad towards the bottom and sides of the armour? Mike
Thats exactly what they are doing. Preventing the hits to the body. I think it's one of the great developments in TKD that blocking (albeit still not the best streetwise way) will actually result in NOT being scored on. The touch rule and the e-hogu absolutely take the focus away from fast avoiding movement and big powerful single shots. The imperative these days is acuracy on target (sensors or face) and guarding up from being hit. It's an ugly time for TKD but there are still great fighters
To be honest it's become a clone of American point fighting, except American point fighting is much faster and, dare I say, better looking. A lot of the Olympic fights were boring. With the touch contact rule they should have been going for head shots every time. Belting your opponent on the hogu at full contact, with the increased risk of injury versus touching their head, for a single point, makes the use of the electronic protectors seem, well, pointless.
Have you watched every fighter? the heavy weights are on right now and they are fighting a lot differently to how you are talking.. Granted a lot of the fighters are doing the new style but there are many who fight old school successfully. Also watch the way that the spinning kicks like the back kick are coming out, particularly in slow motion. There is NOTHING tappy tappy about that. the touch head kick rule was introduced to make it more objective and so that spectators could easily understand what was happening. Personally I think it's a good idea, however they should re-introduce the 1pt for a count rule, which would see more people going for the hard kick. And while the review process can take time, it's really necessary. The amount of outrage from GB supporters after the contravercy last Olympics about a clear head kick not scoring is an issue. It reduces the fallibility of the refs!
Given the points that can be scored there is little point in committing to a heavy kick. I've seen points scored from a missed axe kick, into a round house to the head, if you committed to that axe kick they would not have got the points for the round house to the head. Also why waste energy when you can win from this strategy? Myself from a SanDa perspective it's not my cup of tea, but given the rules, that is the best way to win the competition.
The scotish commentator on the tkd has just said that the jamaican player on now is a convert from itf tkd which is non-contact and judged on artistic merit! Dropped a clanger there!
I've been following the games, particularly Taekwondo, and to be honest I was quite disappointed with how the scoring works. I guess I prefer it being full contact instead of mere touch. I hope they fix that, TKD is already getting a lot of bad opinions. On the other hand, I watched Lutalo Muhammad last night and I have to say, he was better than I expected.
It seems from this limited unscientific sample here that if you didn't like the WTF rules before, you appreciate the changes. But if you liked the rules there is less appreciation for those same changes. To me the most important thing will be what does the viewing public think? Will the spectators like the changes? How will the nonTKDists look at it? Will the new rules result in more TV coverage or less? Finally will the new rules help WTF TKD stay in the Olympics post 2016?
I'm thinking there is something unique about the sport of taekwondo (as compared to track or tennis or something) where it makes the lower levels of the game more exciting to watch than the higher levels. The colored belts at the local events are playing a full-contact game (except light head kicks in many competitions). But, the top-level players must do whatever makes it easier for them to win, so they change things a bit.
I am not sure I would use dumb down, but I think I understand your point. But I think it is simple common sense that if a Martial Art becomes a martial sport or combat sport or focuses on the more narrow aspects that involve the sport side, limited naturally by the respective rule set, then much of the Art may fall by the side, as it has little relevance to winning a match, right?
