Women's self defense classes

Discussion in 'Women's Self Defence' started by Metal_Kitty, Feb 22, 2011.

  1. Microlamia

    Microlamia Banned Banned

    How can language be debilitating? I mean, yes, it's shocking and scary when someone threatens in crude terms to do something to you, but scarier again is the danger of them actually doing it...
     
  2. Sargeslide

    Sargeslide Valued Member

    A lot of women are not used to being called degrading names, also, women I have trained "After the fact" have told me that it was the language used by the attacker that was terrifying. One told me the guy literally talked her into the car and made her take her own clothes off, then raped her, she was so scared, she just didn't want to die.

    He didn't show a weapon of any type, she just thought he had one from what he said.

    Some attackers can talk females into cars and take them to second lcations, all out of fear.
    Coronavirus, I don't know if you are male or female, but read up on some of the stories victims put out there, it does happen.

    Sarge
     
  3. Microlamia

    Microlamia Banned Banned

    I'm female....
     
  4. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I think for the very reasons that Sarge outlined.

    When I teach SD in class some of the guys even have trouble expressing the appearance/body language and foul language I require. There is a massive difference between shoving someone off and shoving with a look of intent and all the industrial language that goes with it, and whats more if you can't do it in class it is not happening outside. Not everyone swears like a trooper.

    Even getting women who have never trained before to slap a boxing mitt and shout "back off" with intent is hard. Remember not all students are in their
    20's, we have had ladies of more senior years come to SD class as well as 14 year old girls so learning a spinning back fist in a 2 hour class won't work The best thing they have in their arsenal is confidence, body language and verbal disuassion.
     
  5. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I can second that
     
  6. Sargeslide

    Sargeslide Valued Member


    Cool. Now, tell me what you think every woman should know to defend herself in various situations. I really want to know, it helps me teach.

    I actually enjoy teaching women, they tend to not have the "Macho" thing going on, and take instructon better, sometimes with tears, but over all, they are better students. They take it serious, and once they know you are working hard for them, they will forgive you for being a dumbass guy.

    My assistant instructor is 5'2" little petite gal, who will drop a bear if she has to. She keeps me straight and I trust her to let me know what we have to do for the benefit of our students.

    Sarge
     
  7. Microlamia

    Microlamia Banned Banned

    I couldn't really speak for women in general. For myself, what I'd want to be able to do in a self defence situation is retain good technique and an effective response under an adrenaline dump. I'm not good at that in safe controlled sparring, let alone while fighting off a rapist.

    I'd also want to be able to defend myself in all ranges, for example fighting on my feet won't be much use if I can't escape when pulled to the ground out of nowhere.

    Can't really think of much other than that. Thanks for asking.
     
  8. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Then just keep doing what you're doing.

    You won't get that from a SD class (typically), why, well they are short courses and you can't get that from such a course.
     
  9. righty

    righty Valued Member

    You say that they need to be taught just like men. But it looks like you limit this to the delivery and training methodology. You teach different self defense content in the womens self defense than a mens or mixed class?
     
  10. Sargeslide

    Sargeslide Valued Member

    No, I actually have co-ed classes too. Some women are not comfortable with the things we have to teach and do with them, with men. And believe it or not the men aren't too comfortable with it either.

    Women fight for different reasons then men, and you have to approch it differently. Women have to defend against power and sex, and thieves.
    Men rarely do, it's usually two idiot's being macho,or a straight attack, or robbery.

    The men I deal with would be the guy to help the gal, not hurt her, so they won't go full out with a gal, PLUS there is the typical Breast, crotch, butt, stuff between everyone, I don't like making people do that, lets be adult, having someone as close to you as a lover, who you do not know, throws everyone off. Us guys are always worried that a female or her BF/Husband will get ****ed, and trust me, they do.

    So I offer Female exclusive classes, I am the head instructor and I usually have a female assistant. Any demo's, like attacks or simulated rape senarios are me and her. Her BF knows this goes on, he knows she is like my own daughter, and he is cool with it. She might have beat his ass to get him to agree, LOL. She is the one who said we had to show realistic attacks and stuff so we worked together and we do it. It really makes gals pay attention.

    Where else can they learn to fight properly where they won't be self concoius of a breast popping out, or some happening that could embarass them in a normal situation? Learning to not cover up is so hard for women to overcome,no I don't make them expose themselves or anyhting like that, but accidents happen, and they gotta keep going until they have beat the attacker down or escaped.

    The language we use in the Female only class is harsh, to desensitize them to it. So when a guy grabs her and says he is going to stick his **** in her *** and **** her until she is dead and so on, she can do what she has to, to survive the situation.

    Other than these things, I do teach them all the same techniques. I also teach awareness, which is way more important than almost anything else.

    They also have to take on men, in safe suits, to see that what they have learned will work no matter who it is used on.

    I take an extreme amount of pride on how I teach females, mainly because my mother was almost beaten to death in front of me when I was five, and in my estimation, no one really trains gals right. they do an eyepoke, kick the crotch seminar for 3 hours and call it a day (In general)

    A short course for me is 12 weeks, two hours, three time a week.

    A belted course, to BB, is 28-36 months depending on the student.

    Wish you were in SW Michigan, Northwest Indiana, I could explain it better in person, or teach you .

    Hope this clears things up
    Sarge
     
  11. melb

    melb Banned Banned

    Was there a reason the vikings left their women at home? What are we talking about here? Males are meant to train 10 years plus to become proficient but a woman can learn what she needs to to defeat a guy in a short course?..I certainly dont have anything against women learning how to fight but maybe instead of sticking around, running would be the best option? - that and learning which areas of the city your're in and when to avoid them? Im sorry I just dont buy into the whole womens self defence thing..my wife for example..trying to teach her to punch with meaning is harder than getting water from a stone. Like I said earlier..its all about mentality/personality..if a woman has it she has it..if she doesnt she doesnt..and no matter how many classes she takes, when or if it happens, its all up to own determination to stand up for herself. Im not trying to detract from the self defence trainers out there because I realise most of you guys are actually interested in helping women. What I said to my wife is feign weakness and then go for the vulnerable points when they least expect it...(if running away isnt an option). I know she would do this, but thats because i know her personally..teaching her coarse language aint gonna do anything
     
  12. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Running is a great option depending on footwear. A further consideration is that a woman may have to fight to get the opportunity to run and that statistically the average woman is likely to be slower than the average male.

    As a suggestion to get your wife to hit harder:
    1. Experiment with palm strikes to the head rather than punches. If the hand is aligned with the forearm more force can be transferred with a lower risk of wrist injury. If doing this on a focus mitt they need to aim to hit the edge (just as if they were going for a jaw or temple). Further pros of palms is the ability to rake straight afterwards and the fact that they replicate natural protective movements and can be learned quicker.
    2. Ask her to imagine that someone is attacking you, your children (if you have them), her mum or someone else she is close to and likely to feel protective of. If you can bring out the mother protecting cub response you will find that she hits harder with greater aggression than if she was purely protecting herself.

    I'm not sure where you get the idea that men are meant to train for 10 years to become proficient? People can become very proficient fighters in far far less time - not champions like Machida or Eubank etc - but proficient and effective fighters none the less.
     
  13. melb

    melb Banned Banned

    She never wears anythig but flat shoes. We have a wing chun dummy and to her a strike is a strike..maybe 10 years is a bit much...but I beleive you need quite a long time to learn a style...maybe 10 years is too much but how long do you think is enough?
     
  14. iammartialarts

    iammartialarts Banned Banned

    Ive only watched one once . They spent the whole 20 minutes we were there hitting pads people were holding close to their balls with their legs. There were even a few little chinese guys doing it too.
     
  15. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    12 months, 3 times a week in something without kata/patterns etc should have anyone hitting real hard.
     
  16. Sargeslide

    Sargeslide Valued Member

    Well, that's what I think too, however, running cannot always be counted on, and no, women do not learn how to properly apply one technique after another in a few hours. I do as few seminar style classes as possible, because if I have to depend on the student to really practice when it is only a short period of time, I might as well just not teach at all. AND, they also have SD seminars geared toward guys. And if you read the whole thing I wrote, it takes 28-36 months to become a BB, regardless of gender.

    I don't teach them to swear, I teach them to ignore it, to make it a non issue, and something not worth reacting to.

    Sarge
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2011
  17. melb

    melb Banned Banned

    Sarge, Im not saying what you teach is useless..Im not saying dont keep teaching self defence to women. What Im saying is there are a lot of people teaching rubbish and they happily take peoples money. If I lived near you Id enrol her whether she liked it or not and Id drive her there. What Im saying is its up to the peson...ive known a few girls whove done well in kickboxing..and at the same time there are a load of bogus self defense joints..in the end though its up to the individual
     
  18. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    When I've run an intensive 5 hour course I've been happy with the striking ability of teenage girls after 3 hours. Could they get better with more time? Of course. But after that amount of time of instruction and motivation they were doing enough to hurt (and stun) people in High Gear armour.

    To learn a martial style - that takes a long time. It takes a pretty long time to become a good self defence instructor too - because you have to learn the hows and the whys behind everything you teach, whereas the average student just has to be able to competently 'do it'. To learn self defence, and be competent to handle the majority of situations? You can get the basics in a single intensive day in my experience. The more days you get obviously the better you get.
     
  19. melb

    melb Banned Banned

    ok, so are those teenage girls going to be able defend themsleves from a persistant male (whose obviously bigger) attacker? I also dont see the difference between being a good ma practitioner and a sd instructor..you have to learn the hows and whys either way..just a ma is for yourself and a sd is for others...
     
  20. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    I'm 6 foot and I was 95 kg the last time I attacked a teenage girl for a self defence seminar. Did I go as heavy as I could? No. I've years of experience in striking. I simulated a persistent attacker using HAOV. Did the girl fight me off to my satisfaction? Yes.

    Would she successfully fight off one of that small percentage of the population that is a large aggressive person intent on hurting/killing another regardless of how much pain they might receive? Probably not, but then nor would most highly trained martial artists or Police Officers.

    Reference your qu on ma practitioners and instructors. My point was that for good self defence you need a set of skills. Unlike the instructors you don't necessarily need to know all the sports science, physiology, criminology, behavioural science, martial arts, psychology, law etc that has been used to form that system. With lots of martial arts, time is taken spent learning lots of things that are part of the art, but not necessary for self defence - thats why it generally takes longer to become proficient in a style than in a self defence system. It is also why people who have trained in some martial arts styles for many many years, while very good martial artists, are not as proficient in self defence as people who have focused purely on self defence for a shorter period of time.
     

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