Women's self defence - falsehoods

Add some ground escapes to Thomas's list and thats what we normally teach. Along with the common sense stuff (walking the streets at night, toilets in pubs, etc...)

 

Certainly seems thorough. I totally agree that many instructors neglect the ground. I taught my wife how to apply armbar from guard, because when you think about it, the goal of the rapist is to get between the woman's legs and many times they will hold onto the woman in a choking manner with one hand while the other hand takes off her clothes, etc. I've taught her to swivel around the choking arm and apply extreme pressure on the elbow and don't let go until it breaks.

 

I work with most of the techniques listed, or a variation of them. Also I cover some of the more nasty things such as eye gouging, groin strikes, kicks into the inside of the ankle (a simple outward stomp there hurts), Strikes with the thumb into the larynx or cartoid artery... Things anyone can learn quickly that are extremely painful and effective. I know the liability on teaching this could hurt, but I still feel it is something worth them learning. Frankly, the attacker is trying to seriously hurt, if not kill, them. I like to put things on a more equal level of reaction.

Rob

 

Ok ladies your turn as well *LOL*

Question to the ladies who may be interested in the classes?
What situations can you think of that you may end up in that you would want an instructor to teach?

 

Here's an extreme question.

We have tried this scenario and I was wondering what others thought.

It's a hostage situation and the gunman has their
arm around you pressing you against their side, the gun is pointed at your head. What do you do?

I've been told if you can possibly get the attention of the police or whoever is attempting to defuse this situation and somehow non-verbally communicate your intentions and then just sit down. They probably won't be able to hold you up with one arm and concentrate on what's going on at the same time and will let go. This gets you out of the line of fire.

 

Geez, there are alot of variables to consider with that scenario ladyhawk, ie is it a revolver or pistol, what's the gunman's emotional state?, etc.

I don't think I'd trust a non-verbal communication arrangement between myself and the police, too much room for error.

We had a similar scenario happen at work; a inmate was holding a food stewart by knifepoint and making little cuts on his neck. One officer kept talking to him while another quickly grabbed his knife hand and pulled, then we tackled him. The hostage escaped with minor injuries.

I think I'd just wait to see what the police were going to do, unless the gunman was escalating and I thought he was about to shoot me, then what the hell, try something.

 

Yes, you're right it was a bit generalized.

I guess we can always use the line out of the movie Speed..."Shoot the hostage."

 

Leave it to Ladyhawk to express the extreme,
"Here's an extreme question.

We have tried this scenario and I was wondering what others thought.

It's a hostage situation and the gunman has their arm around you pressing you against their side, the gun is pointed at your head. What do you do?
I've been told if you can possibly get the attention of the police or whoever is attempting to defuse this situation and somehow non-verbally communicate your intentions and then just sit down. They probably won't be able to hold you
up with one arm and concentrate on what's going on at the same time and will let go. This gets you out of the line of fire."

Huh? Don't ever go to a bank use the drive through.
If I fall to the ground he could shoot me as I lay there?
Hope there is a sniper active and well practiced?

 

I was kind of thinking on the idea that guns are
already pointed at the person who has a gun pointed at the hostage. Can't really make a call on how someone in this situation will react but I was thinking he wouldn't be bothered with the hostage because his focus would be on everyone else.

The Extreme Ladyhawk

 

I think that is a good idea, just falling the person more than likely could not hold you up, but my first thought is he would probably drop down with you, bend his knees try to hold on to you.
I was told never go anywhere with someone who ahs a gun make them shoot you right there and hopefully they get caught. If you leave with them they may take into seclusion and kill you without anyone seeing it. This might be an effective strategy in a hostage situation since the criminal needs you alive in order to escape.

One thing, if you are ever in a hostage situations or even an armed robbery, if they attempt to take you into the back rooms they are going to shoot you and kill you so you need to make a move before they get you back there, just a thought.

Parker Kenpo has a few gun disarming techniques and I have managed to learn a few more from the US Marshals and other agencies and there may be ways to effectively disarm the criminal in the hostage situation. There are many times where the criminal might make himself or herself vulnerable to to your movements.

 

Why has this thread gone so long without any further comment?

Too bad I didn't notice it before...

I go through a session of 'hostage negotiation' with students every now and then. My previous life training is a little different than many others in that I was taught how to be the terrorist in control.

There are three basic variables; the hostage, the terrorist and the negotiator. When it comes down to it, the hostage has the most power because without their co-operation there is no continuing situation.

Something worth considering when you're teaching self protection/defence training in a woman's anti-rape scenario. Also very worthwhile is discussing what happens if/when you are raped and how to get through all of that emotional baggage that you may carry around for the rest of your life.

There was a huge upsurge in woman's self defence '3 week courses' during the late 80's and early 90's in this country. Since Sept 11 the same old trash has come out again. I've been against these short courses all the time and been accused of making the 'helpless' feel hopeless.

IMO the reality is that if you're up against an attacker who has done this before (odds are he would have unless he knows you already) the violence that he will cause you if you fight back ineffectively will be a lot worse than if you didn't fight back at all.

Any other comments?

 

Dont know, I have some experance with guns and with similar extream situations... I guess if you preform any kind of fast and unexpected move the gunman might shoot you by reflex...
Think the better idea is waiting till the gun isn´t pointed at you anymore, so your chances are bigger

 

Sexual assault scenarios ....situations where an attacker has you pinned down, hitting you in the face, threatening to kill you and ripping your clothes off as he prepares to penetrate you or holding a knife to your throat while forcing you into oral copulation ... how are those two for starters.???

In my experience teaching a free seminar our school offered last month, many of the were women older, overweight, or very young, and introspective. We even had a few women with emotional and health issues to consider.

All of these women were looking for and needed a system of self defense that they could learn effortlessly and retain once they encounter these "situations" ... a method that would work for all of them.
Of course it is a given that you teach them avoidance and evasion ...and what to do when an attackers grabs your wrists or grabs you from behind.... but most importantly, self defense instruction should IMO, cut to the chase -- meaning, instruct women on how to escape the worst position they may find themselves involved in so that all of the other scenarios would be easier to handle by comparison.

Also, since most female attack situations involve the attacker beinghigh on something... techniques taught should focus less on pain compliance and more on controling their center line while learning to physically move the attacker off of you or causing damage to the joints rendering him immobile.

 

As you might know from my first post, I´m very interested in women self defence since about two month... the greatest poblem is that different women will be attacked in differend ways, teens might be attacked at their way home from party,maybe even at the party, old women more often will be traped by somebody at I don´t realy know how to express that but I think the situations might be different so the stuff thay aer thought should be different too ( it is not possible that a 16b years old girl wears comfortible clothes at the club, but a 50 years old women might do beeng out with the dog or something)

 

Women may not be as strong as men physicaly. but mentally they can be as tough as us ^_^

 

Sarah, that's exactly why you SHOULD go. I've been wanting to go to these classes for years just on the hope that I can be proven wrong, but I'd be accused of 'Dojo busting' at the least so I've refrained.

 

The majority of MAists are male.