Women and Swordfighting

I was going to keep ranting about the "zero women" part but Schola Gladiatoria (see post #40, above) did it so much better I have nothing left to say on this front.

I will point out, again, that this "zero women" idiot is getting all fussy about what he erroneously thinks is "historical realism" in a show where this is the first scene:

 

A few historical examples, History is not always reflective of the reality it purports to document.

US Army was guilty of this in the reporting of a female soldier who defended her comrades. The story was later debunked by the soldiers who it was trying to portray us having done it.

as to tactics used against a much larger opponent they should be different reflecting weaknesses and strengths of each, more so if the person is a skilled opponent.

sumo has some good examples of this in use.

 

A few historical examples, History is not always reflective of the reality it purports to document.

US Army was guilty of this in the reporting of a female soldier who defended her comrades. The story was later debunked by the soldier who it was trying to portray.

as to tactics used against a much larger opponent they should be different reflecting weaknesses and strengths of each, more so if the person is a skilled opponent.

sumo has some good examples of this in use.

 

Not sure which example you're talking about, but neither Monica Brown nor Leigh Ann Hester's medals were ever revoked. Brown dragged injured soldiers to safety and treated them while sustaining continuous mortar fire, and Hester fought her way through an enemy-filled trench to clear it:

Spoiler

The President of the United States of America, authorized by Act of Congress July 9, 1918 (amended by an act of July 25, 1963), takes pleasure in presenting the Silver Star to Specialist [then Private First Class] Monica Lin Brown, United States Army, for extraordinary heroism while serving as a Combat Medic with the 4th Squadron, 73d Cavalry Regiment, 4th Brigade Combat Team, 82d Airborne Division, in action on 25 April 2007. On that date, 2d Platoon, Charlie Troop, 4th Squadron, 73d Cavalry Regiment, was on a combat patrol moving to Jani Khel, Afghanistan, for a leader engagement with the village elders. The element consisted of five vehicles: four M1151 Uparmored HMMWV's (UAH) and one Afghan National Army (ANA) Ford Ranger. They were in a column formation moving north along Route VIPER. In the vicinity of 42S VA263021 the trail vehicle, C23, struck a pressure plate IED on the driver's side rear tire, which ignited the fuel tank and fuel cans mounted on the rear of the vehicle. The explosion of the fuel tank and cans engulfed the vehicle in an intense fireball. This initiated a planned ambush which commenced after the explosion. The patrol began to take small arms fire from the direction of a kholat to the east, approximately 100 meters away. The small arms fire was impacting around the lead vehicle which was 300 meters north of the IED site. The small arms fire began to concentrate on the IED site as the Platoon Medic, Private First Class Brown, moved on foot to evaluate the casualties. She was exposed to the small arms fire until the maneuver element could swing around and begin suppressing the enemy as she treated the wounded Soldiers. After making an initial assessment and treating in order of severity, she moved the casualties with the aid and direction of the Platoon Sergeant, into the wadi the engulfed vehicle was hanging over. The enemy fighters then engaged the patrol with mortar fire. Private First Class Brown threw her own body over the casualties to shield them as the mortars were impacting 75 to 100 meters away. Approximately 15 mortars impacted within close range of the casualties as Private First Class Brown continued treatment. Private First Class Brown continued treatment in the wadi approximately 15 meters from the burning vehicle, at which time the onboard 60-mm. mortar, 5.56-mm. ammunition, and 40-mm. grenade rounds on board began to explode. Again disregarding her own safety, Private First Class Brown shielded the casualties with her own body as large chunks of shrapnel and 5.56-mm. rounds began flying through the air from the burning vehicle. The patrol leader arrived on site and found it incredible she was still alive and treating the casualties amidst the extremely dangerous conditions she was operating under. Given the hazards to Private First Class Brown, the platoon sergeant used the ANA Ranger to move the wounded Soldiers and Private First Class Brown to a more protected position. As the truck began driving down the wadi, a large 60-mm. mortar explosion occurred sending shrapnel flying all around where Private First Class Brown had been treating casualties. The platoon leader was dragged by the ANA truck with the casualties as the explosions became incredibly intense and the platoon sergeant moved Private First Class Brown to a more protected position to continue treatment. Private First Class Brown continued treatment of the two wounded Soldiers at the new site as enemy small arms fire began to impact around the new position. Private First Class Brown continued treatment of the casualties as the platoon returned fire in close vicinity of her. She shielded the wounded from falling brass and enemy fire once again, ensuring the casualties were stabilized and ready for MEDEVAC. Specialist Brown's heroic actions are in keeping with the finest traditions of military service, reflecting great credit upon herself, the 82d Airborne Division, and the United States Army.[9]

Spoiler

Sergeant Leigh A. Hester is cited for conspicuous gallantry in action against an armed enemy of the United States while engaged in military operations involving conflict with anti Iraq forces (AIF) as a team leader for Raven 42B, 617th Military Police Company, 503d Military Police Battalion (Airborne) stationed at Camp Liberty, Iraq on 20 March 2005, in support of Operation IRAQI FREEDOM. The team's mission was to assist Raven 42 in searching the Eastern Convoy Route for improvised explosive devices (IEDs) and provide additional security to sustainment convoys traveling through their area of responsibility. While patrolling Alternate Supply Route (ASR) Detroit, Raven 42B was shadowing a sustainment convoy consisting of 30 third country national (TCN) semi-tractor trailers with a three vehicle squad size escort, call sign Stallion 33, traveling from LSA (logistics support area) Anaconda to CSC (convoy support center) Scania. The weather for this ASR patrol was 75 degrees and sunny with a 10 knot breeze from the southwest. While traveling on ASR Detroit approximately 50 AIF ambushed the convoy with heavy AK47 fire, RPK heavy machine gun fire, and rocket propelled grenades (RPGs) from the southwest side of the road at 1140 hours. The AIF were utilizing irrigation ditches and an orchard for the well planned complex attack. The AIF had cars combat parked along a road perpendicular to the ASR with all doors and trunks open. The AIF intent was to destroy the convoy, to inflict numerous casualties, and to kidnap several TCN drivers or U.S. Soldiers. The initial ambush disabled and set on fire the lead TCN vehicle, which effectively blocked the southbound lanes of ASR Detroit, stopping the convoy in the kill zone. The squad leader, Staff Sergeant Timothy Nein, directed the squad to move forward, traveling on the right shoulder and passing through the engagement area between the enemy and the convoy. Sergeant Hester directed her gunner to provide heavy volumes of MK 19 and M240B fires into the field where an overwhelming number of insurgents were executing a well coordinated ambush on the convoy. Raven 42 elements were outnumbered five to one. Staff Sergeant Nein ordered the squad to flank the insurgents on their right side. The squad continued to come under heavy machine gun fire and rocket propelled grenade fire when Sergeant Hester stopped her vehicle, the middle vehicle, at a flanking position enfilading the trench line and the orchard field where over a dozen insurgents were engaging the squad and convoy. She then directed her gunner to focus fires in the trench line and the orchard field. Sergeant Hester dismounted and moved to what was thought to be the non-contact side of the vehicle. She ordered her gunner to continue to fire on the orchard field as she and her driver engaged insurgents in the orchard field with small arms. Sergeant Hester began engaging the insurgents with her M203 in order to suppress the heavy AIF fire. Sergeant Hester followed Staff Sergeant Nein to the right side berm and threw two well placed fragmentation grenades into the trench eliminating the AIF threat. Sergeant Hester and Staff Sergeant Nein went over the berm into the trench and began clearing the trench with their M4s. Sergeant Hester engaged and eliminated three AIF to her front with her M4. They then made their way to the front trench and cleared that as well. After clearing the front trench cease fire was called and she began securing the ambush site. The final result of the ambush was 27 AIF KIA (killed in action), 6 AIF WIA (wounded in action), and one AIF captured.

Buuuuut Queen Calanthe isn't fighting "much larger opponents." She's a tall-and-big-boned woman with a strong build, about the same size as typical men on the show. She's not some waifish supermodel.

 

”Lynch's capture and rescue in Iraq were incorrect. On April 24, 2007, she testified in front of Congress that she had never fired her weapon (her M16 riflehaving jammed), and that she had been knocked unconscious when her vehicle crashed.“

Starting to get real boring.
Might want to look up the strength equivalencies between men and women of the same size.

There are other anatomical differences that in general give men an advantage for what they are designed to do, as are most males of any species.

 

Saying zero women can fight because the Pentagon made up a story for PR purposes in one specific incident seventeen years ago is silly. Plenty of women have fought valiantly for the US military and other militaries, and many have been decorated, like the two I listed. And governments have embellished stories of certain male combatants too when it was seen as politically valuable (see, as one example, Pat Tillman).

It's funny how theoretical strength equivalencies is considered such a show-breaking problem when Queen Calanthe kills a couple swordsmen in battle, but not when Geralt is strong enough to stop an overhead strike from a MINIVAN-sized monster beast in the very first scene. Or when he's swallowed whole by an even bigger monster and kills it from inside its stomach.

 

That Klaven bloke gets dumber the more he says...

"by depicting women doing things they wouldn't do in real life (2), writers kowtow to feminists by turning women into fake men and don't depict women as they are."

Unlike the whole of human fiction and story telling that depicts men doing things they wouldn't do in real life and as such kowtow to male fantasies about being James Bond or Conan?!
Why cant fiction just depict men as they are?
I demand James Bond has venereal disease and liver failure.

 

The thing is...the very first scene of The Witcher (referenced above) establishes the internal logic of the world.
It establishes that with skill and determination a smaller fighter can overcome a much larger foe.
So a highly skilled determined woman beating stronger men is entirely in keeping with the logic already established in the show.
I mean it's nothing new...seemingly overpowered (but wily or skilled or brave) protagonists beating "big bad guys" is a story telling or literary trope as old as human oral or written history.

So even without venturing onto "teh realz battelfeeldz" his larger point falls down.

 

I'm sorry, but anyone arguing for "logic" or "accuracy" in any TV show is simply deluded.
It's like arguing that "reality" TV shows are actually "real".

 

You Vs Gabi Garcia, you ain't winning under any ruleset.

 

I was not familiar with him before this, so I did a bit of googling. It looks like he has zero background in swordfighting and zero background in medieval history. Before he was a conservative politics/culture commentator, he was a crime novelist.

He is, however, known for saying really offensive things to get a rise out of people. For example, he also recently advocated for genocide of 82 million people: "or Iran is blown off the face of the earth in about fifteen minutes and the world is better for it."

So with that context, it seems clear that his opinion on the history of women and swordsmanship is something he just made up on the spot to "trigger teh libz" and get his podcast more listens from the far right.

 

What are men "designed" to do?

 

I dunno man...her striking is shockingly bad in MMA and much smaller women have bested her in BJJ (although not many).

 

And keep in mind the particular show in question here is one where men are mutated with potions to become monster hunters, and the protagonist's love interest is a sorceress with elvish blood. I'm curious about the original video critic's position on channeling lightning and opening portals, and how feminists force the writers to make women seem so powerful.

 

Not to mention, the character of Queen Calanthe and her role in the 2019 Netflix series isn't even a creation of the show. It's all from a series of fantasy novels published in Poland in the early 1990s.

You can't blame this character on "modern American feminists" any more than you could with Tolkien's Eowyn, shieldmaiden of Rohan.

 

Perhaps cyborg was a better example, but I was attempting to show that there's a cross over in the distribution curve, especially over time.

 

That's a damn fine point that shows that Klaven guy's comment is pure alt-right posturing.

 

Not to mention, and I don't say this about nearly anybody...he kind of strikes me as a wimp, and possibly not that great with the ladies. The kind of person so unhappy with their love life that they spend their nights watching Netflix, pshawing about strong women, and sketching out their next podcast, where the try to come across as the so called "alpha male."

This guy is so not the alpha male type.. Not that I am either...Steve Rogers/Chris Evans, maybe. But not Klaven. I'm not sure what his type is...bitter?

 

I'm profoundly, deeply tickled to know that the guy in the original video, who is so deeply obsessed with "men being men" and "women being women," and never the two shall meet, etc etc etc, once published a novel under the pen name "Margaret Tracy."

 

The whole concept of "alpha male" in human society is a problematic one as far as I can see.
Much of the idea of alpha males comes from flawed research on captive wolves. In the wild the behaviour of alpha male wolves (and alpha females) is not quite so marked or aggressive or forecful. As befits a complex social animal their behaviour is much more nuanced.
Trying to apply the concept of an alpha male to the even more socially complex lives of human beings, with the multiple social conventions and overlaid culture is even more problemtatic. We can be the "alpha" in one situation, but not another.
Generally speaking men who are attached to the idea of being "alpha males" just want an excuse to be egotistical jerks and hit on women all the time.