Women and Swordfighting

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Botta Dritta, Jan 16, 2020.

  1. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    And my example shows it's not a binary situation, just because someone is male doesn't mean they will always be stronger then someone who is female, and having a strength advantage doesn't automatically mean they can overcome a technical disadvantage.

    So when the original OP video says zero women can fight with swords (due to the average strength difference) it's simple enough to show that statement is incorrect.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
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  2. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    And my example shows it's not a binary situation, just because someone is male doesn't mean they will always be stronger then someone who is female, and having a strength advantage doesn't automatically mean they can overcome a technical disadvantage.

    So when the original OP video says zero women can fight with swords (due to the average strength difference) it's simple enough to show that statement is incorrect.
     
  3. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Only by people who think that a goatee with a ponytail is a good look!
     
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  4. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Mod note: Please remember profanity - including masked profanity - is against the TOS of MAP. If you have to replace letters with other signs, that is a good indicator it is not allowed here. Thanks!
     
  5. windwalker

    windwalker Member

    Wondering if you have any contact with the US Army that you use for examples.

    Retired from the US Army in 95, served as part of staff in whats called combated development for land combate missile systems.
    Each corp has a combat developments staff that looks at future, present and past requirements and weapon systems.

    Decisions are made regarding present and future weapon systems needed, the type of end user influences the design based on combat efficiency.

    For example armor and artillery both have strength requirements that limit who can
    serve in the MOS.


    There are minimum and maximum requirements that are used in designing
    weapon systems and assening MOS requirements
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
  6. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    I never claimed to be a servicemember or veteran. I do know several who are about 150 lbs or less, eyeballing it. Do you disagree with my statement that the US Army does not require people to be heavyweights to fight?

    The US Army's most decorated infantryman was 5'5", 112 lbs at the time of enlistment.

    Military career of Audie Murphy - Wikipedia
     
  7. windwalker

    windwalker Member



    "Apart from medical reasons, one primary cause of disqualification as a potential recruit to the U.S. Army is failing to meet the standard height and weight requirement set by the U.S. Army."

    Army Height And Weight Standards For Men

    there are max and min standards that one has to meet .

    While in the military if one can not sustain or meet them they are chaptered out....
    The idea is to enable a person to keep themselves alive, and those that might depend on them.
    a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

    Might want to understand the differences between what voluntary and conscription means
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
  8. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Yes, there are minimum weights, many of which are flyweight or featherweight. By your own chart, the Army does NOT prohibit everyone besides muscular heavyweights. Which proves my point. If you are 5'6", the minimum weight is 117 lbs!
     
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  9. windwalker

    windwalker Member


    you still dont understand, thats ok...

    the chart reflects min and max just to be able to join....to remain and stay in is another matter.

    "a new standard for strength and endurance. An average Marine Corps infantry officer should to be physically able to carry 152 lbs. for nine miles. "





    [​IMG]

    In 2016, the Marine Corps Times reported a new standard for strength and endurance. An average Marine Corps infantry officer should to be physically able to carry 152 lbs. for nine miles. That load might sound extreme, but even official documents describe carrying a 100 lbs. as standard. In the ensuing debate about whether this was realistic, one marine infantryman described carrying more than 200 lbs. during missions in Afghanistan."
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  10. windwalker

    windwalker Member

    "
    With all due respect to the Colonel, she is wrong when she says the 152-pound load carried during the IOC’s ruck marches is an unrealistic standard. In fact, infantry Marines and officers regularly carry this kind of weight during both training and operational deployment.

    The Marine Corps infantry is an inherently physical occupation; fitness failure equals leadership failure. To argue otherwise reflects a basic misunderstanding of the nature of the Marine Corps infantry. [​IMG]


    I cannot stress this enough: A physically weak officer in the infantry will never be respected."

    A little off topic....seems like some people have opinions about something they've never done or experienced.
    Respect all opinions, it helps if they'er based on experience.

    None of this is meant to diminish the role that female soldiers, sailors, air force, or marines, play in their respective roles.
    They serve with distinction and honer the same their bothers in arms....
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  11. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    And is your assertion that "zero women" could pass that physical fitness test? If not, what relevance does this post have to the original post?
     
  12. windwalker

    windwalker Member

    “So when the original OP video says zero women can fight with swords (due to the average strength difference) it's simple enough to show that statement is incorrect.”

    let’s start by quoting what was originally said in the video.

    He said . I’m paraphrasing something to the effect that women fighting against real men who have dealt with other men with real swords none of them would be able to survive

    apparently he had a problem with some scenes in a movie showing the opposite. In other words a fiction.

    which movies in general are.

    Most really don’t reflect Most really don’t reflect reality they seek to portray.
     
  13. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    But although this particular show is fiction, the specific concern he's raising is not. The assumption that trained female swordspeople could defeat trained male swordspeople has happened zero times is a false assumption.

    It's a stupid rant. The show is full of mages, monsters, elves, dwarves, dragons...but the one and only thing he complains of as being wildly unrealistic...isn't.

    (He also complains that it's unrealistic that any woman would enjoy drinking beer and belching and being boorish, which suggests just how far down the rabbit hole of gender stereotyping he is)
     
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  14. windwalker

    windwalker Member

    Maybe the "swordsmen" weren't as "trained" as they thought they where.

    He also goes on to mention that they could kill those of lesser skill,
    which to me seems to be the point.

    I took it to mean those of real skill, the inherent differences
    due to biology would be a big factor not easily overcome with out a huge
    skill disparity.
     
  15. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    This is turning into a "no true male swordsman" fallacy.
    Man defeats woman = men are just superior and that's that
    Woman defeats man = well he wasn't that skilled
     
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  16. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    the inherent differences
    due to biology would be a big factor not easily overcome with out a huge
    skill disparity.

    And as people have been saying....this is also true with the biological differences between big men and small men and yet no one seems fit to bring that up when the Witcher defeats a massive monster 5 times bigger and stronger than he is.
    Men are applauded for overcoming a physical disparity while for women it's used as more ammo to put them back where they "belong".
     
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  17. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    There's probably a "just right" size for combat or various combat roles.
    About 6' 2", 220lbs (fit). Any larger and cardio and the calorific load needed to maintain the person would be compromised. Smaller and the physical disparity becomes too hard to overcome.
    But there are a LOT of variables at play (especially historically) that stop such considerations being a purely numbers game of pounds and inches.
     
  18. windwalker

    windwalker Member

    Seems like we’ve watched a different clip.

    In the clip he mentions the scene of a women who fights like the men they fight, able to overcome them.

    “like men “ Key operative phrase.

    if one adopts and uses the same tactics as a much larger opponent seems reasonable the opponent with a greater strength speed and size advantage will have advantage, no?

    at any rate it’s just an opinion of someone who posted a clip on the net. It may reflect a reality that some have experienced or a reality that some feel should not be.

    In general weapon usage is a matter skill. Between two equally skilled opponents other factors do and can matter.
     
  19. Botta Dritta

    Botta Dritta Valued Member

    This. Absolutely this.

    "Listen amazon woman, defeating a Cave Troll with skill despite it being being 20 times stronger than you it totally not believable. Thrugg the barbarian? Yeah well he had 'skill' on his side as he was trained by the Silent masters in the 'whispering hand'. What? you too were trained by the Silent Masters? Look....just shut up! Zero women have ever beaten a Cave troll period! He wasn't even weapon trained...or experienced.... Now get back into the kitchen and make me a machiatto now"

    Klaven the Bard, Disbeliever of Yuutuube.
     
  20. Botta Dritta

    Botta Dritta Valued Member

    But the character in question, the queen, was already introduced as a veteran of many battles. Andrew Klaven seems to insinuate that her skill automatically counts for less because the foot-soldiers she faced would automatically be superior to her.

    His Twitter comment later:

    To be fair, in context, I was saying women couldn't sword-fight with men trained for battle (1). My larger point was that by depicting women doing things they wouldn't do in real life (2), writers kowtow to feminists by turning women into fake men and don't depict women as they are.

    but

    (1) There have been examples
    (2) How exactly would the queen use her Sidesword differently to a man? He even gets the average weight wrong 5-10lb?

    Schola Gladiatorias take on this

     
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