women and push ups

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Southern Mantis, Jan 22, 2004.

  1. shotokanwarrior

    shotokanwarrior I am the One

    This is NOT what I have a problem with. What I have a problem with is that the differences between men and women are played up to so much more than they are. YES, they exist, but they are not nearly so great as some people convey them to be. '10 girls 50 guys' is blatantly ridiculous. That is not making allowances for sexual dimorphism, that is ASSISTING it, keeping women weak.

    I know, my point was that sexual dimorphism is greatly exaggerated. I once read one of those rubbishy 'women's self defence' books and it consisted almost entirely, and that's literal, of sticking fingers into the eyes and throat. No mention of even attacking the nose, for God's sake. I have also heard that women should only use the heel of the hand as their wrists are so weak that they will be damaged if they try to punch someone. This is the kind of rubbish I was having a go at. I didn't mean we're actually told 'You're defenseless' but the subliminal messages are there.

    Thanks, toothpaste. It makes me feel better that someone believes I merit respect, rather than telling me I'm being too dramatic or dismissing me as a 'hardcore feminist'. I had feared the latter reaction. Whenever I point out that women are actually not massively and hopelessly inferior, I seem to get that reaction.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2005
  2. CobraMaximus

    CobraMaximus Banned Banned

    Before anyone flames me or anything Id like to say Ive never really said that women are defenseless or weak but however they have less chance of getting as big and strong as a man. Thats why Lenda Murray and Ronnie Coleman are different. Both bodybuilders, both training seriously, both champs but Ronnies twice the size.
    Its a genetic thing that women won't be as strong as a man could potentially get but that is not the issue here. Pressups are
     
  3. Nick K

    Nick K Sometimes a Valued Member

    First. Women vs men. There is no doubt women can do pressups. My 10 yr old daughter does them at the start of her kung fu class. She is built like a pipe cleaner as well which almost certainly helps. She can't do 40 as requested by the sifu, but she can do 12-15 with good ish form. It's largely a power to weight ratio issue. Does the fact that women proportionally carry more body weight in the lower half explain the *usual* lesser ability? (No disrespect - Ive fought and been beaten by many female martial artists, including Roxanne Symes who came 3rd at TKD world champs last year. She is better at press ups than I am. And she's 16) Or is shoulder width, tendon width and other mechanical differences the key? I'm inclined to the view it is relevant muscle mass (equates to strength): body mass ratio that explains the gender difference. BTW are trained women better at squats than trained men as percentage of body weight? I bet they are.

    strength vs endurance. I think in a *fight* strength ie absolute lift potential is probably a greater help than endurance, which becomes more important in competition with weight classes, technique limitations, rounds,etc. The guy who runs my gym has been Mr Great Britain twice in the past 4 years. He as strong as an ox (in fact he can bench press a small one), but can't do as many press ups as I can. No doubt at all he'd beat me in a fight.

    Bench vs pressups. Keeping your body still and moving your hands (Bench) is NOT the same as keeping your hands still and moving your body (press up) There is obvious overlap, but different stabilisers etc are involved.

    Endurance vs strength. You get what you train for. You want press ups? Get the form right and practice. It doesn't cost anything!

    BTW do you think Ronnie might use a tad more decadurabolin than Lenda?
     
  4. shotokanwarrior

    shotokanwarrior I am the One

    There's a very simple way around that. Keep your abdominals contracted. Is there something wrong with doing that or am I just being ignorant and patronizing?
     
  5. Maverick

    Maverick New Member

    See, girls can even learn the mechanics of exercising in rare cases!

    Sooner or later, they'll evolve to do everything else men can.





    :D
     
  6. NaughtyKnight

    NaughtyKnight Has yellow fever!

    Get yourslef a swiss ball, and but your pelvis on it and do pushups like that. As you get better move down till its just your toes on the ball. I can do 50+ nuckle pushups on the floor and around 35 on the swiss ball on my toes.
     
  7. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member


    Good thing you're wayyyyyyy over there Mav ..... that was just so uncalled for.


    This was the original question Southern Mantis posted and somehow this thread 'evolved' into yet another male vs. female issue. Stick to the point and offer some constructive advice.

    The goal to a Full- Push Up is easily achieved if you break it apart.

    You begin with a graduated series to progress onto the full push up. (I believe this may have been suggested earlier but I can't bring myself to read all those off-track posts prior)

    Start with the easiest being the "plank" --- Do it 3X a week until you master it then move on to the "incline" push up Work up to doing 2 sets of 10 reps. When you feel like you can do more advance to the "kneeling (or arm)" push ups then try "one-knee" push ups.

    1) Plank -- Start in a basic push up position with hands directly beneath shoulders and body in a straight line. Pull in the abs (navel) and hold for 20 secs. Rest for 30 secs and repeat. When you can easily hold this position for 30 secs. 2x at a time you're ready to move on to (2)

    2) Incline Push Up -- Place hands on weight bench (or sturdy sofa/chair/bench) and extend legs behind you so head, neck , back, butt and legs are all in a straight line.

    Bend elbows out to the sides and lower body almost to bench (or as far as you can go for now). Keep abs tight and body in line. Hold briefly and push back up.

    3) Kneeling Push Up --Knell on floor with hands directly beneath shoulders and legs bent so that the body is in a straight line from head to knees.

    Bend elbows out to side and lower body almost to floor, keeping abs tight and body in line. Hold briefly then push back up.

    4) One Knee Push Up-- Start with the kneeling pushup position as above but raise left leg off floor to hip height keeping rightknee/leg on floor.

    Bend elbows out to side and lower body almost to floor, keeping abs tight and body in line. Hold briefly then push back up.... do 5x on each leg which is one set.

    Remember: Quality NOT Quantity !!!! (You guys fail to comprehend that .... and I'm not talking just push ups either!!!!)

    :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2005
  8. jms137

    jms137 New Member

    There is nothing "biomechanically" different about women which means they "cannot do pushups". Their shoulder setup is the same as men. They just have less strength/weight ratio on their upper body which is why a lot of women find them difficult.

    The people who are biomechanically disadvantaged for push ups are those with longer arms /shoulder width ratio. "Barrel chested" people find them easier.

    Just train them hard and frequently and stay away from the knee on floor ones. I think a lot of the reason women find them difficult is because their trainer takes the 'these are difficult for women so better just do knee on floor ones' attitude which means the girls never train them hard enough to improve much.

    There is a woman in my class who can do 15 one arm push ups with ease. she has awesome strength! christ i can't even do one full one... :-(

    john
     
  9. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    That could well be the case.
    I have never met a man, woman or child who couldn't do a full pushup. If you can do 1 of them, that's the movement you should be working on.
     
  10. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    I've met loads.

    Not many who cannot do a box pushup though - which is a start.
     
  11. Mrs Owt

    Mrs Owt New Member

    I've read all the advice, I've tried all the techniques and I am FAR from weak but I still can't manage decent push ups. I only seem to be able to get about halfway down and my elbows and shoulders don't seem to like the rest of the way down.

    Do you get benefit from doing sad half push ups?
     
  12. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member

    Absolutely!
    ... in fact they're called "half push ups" and will assist you in getting to a full push up.

    Also .... try changing the incline, the more of an angle, the easier the push up. Start by trying to do pushups with your upper body elevated, for example, on a stair.
     
  13. Mrs Owt

    Mrs Owt New Member

    That is the weird thing. I can do half push ups, pushups on on the incline until I am pretty close to straight on the floor - it is only when I am actually parallel with the blasted floor my shoulders and elbows rebel! Trick is keep working at it, eh? I just feel like such a wuss at my BJJ class when all these guys are doing these great pushups and I am just kind of bobbing up and down. :(
     
  14. Maverick

    Maverick New Member

    Twas a comment made in pure jest. :love:
     
  15. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member

    In that case Mav we really should add a "jest"-er smilie !
    [​IMG]
     
  16. NaughtyKnight

    NaughtyKnight Has yellow fever!

    LOL. Oh KC what are we going to do with you. :D
     
  17. Nick K

    Nick K Sometimes a Valued Member

    Good thread..and nice new smiley
     

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