Hopefully this link works The Martial Man Sums up pretty much what my sifu have always said not enough power in the wing chun shots to stop the guy clinching and really punishing him in the clinch or throwing him, and he really didn't seem to have an answer to the hooks or overhands thrown at him. MMA guy shelled up to test the wing chun lads power, decided it wasn't that good then went to town on him. A close range up right style with little clinch work and no post hooks, and little experience with overhand shots isn't an ideal art in my view
Yeah that was a beating. It could have been over far quicker under an mma ruleset. Should have been over long before it was regardless. No answer to the clinch, unable to deal with the slip and counter (no natural protection from the shoulder, chin up etc), the overhand or the hook and totally overwhelmed. Not a great showing but props to the guy for turning up and looking like the thing you actually train. Good for him.
Like Knee rider says kudos to the guy for getting in there. We have all taken a beating at one point. Full respect to anybody to stand there take a beating and continue. Full respect for anybody competing or testing there skill. But let's be honest classic case of Ip Man the movie fighting at its best. I mean it's perfect movie fu. There's so many things wrong it's not even funny. Whats worse is this represents the art I follow quite badly and serves for arguments from mma guys saying traditional martial arts are a waste to time. Personally I didn't see one wing chun straight punch being executed. Clearly his adrenal dump over powered him and it got the best of him. But please just don't stand there perfectly static, with a arm out begging to be grappled with. Did anybody see any simultaneous defence and attack because I cetainly didn't. The list is too long to write but let's not forget it's easy to sit there and watch a video back and see all the problems. Easy to critique and pick apart. However when I've watched myself back sparring I'm screaming at myself do this, do that. Keeping a clear head, controlling your adenaline, staying loose is not so easy in the heat of the moment. That said it was terrible. Icefield i don't think it's the art at question here it's the individual. Clearly trains agaist his wing chun brothers and nothing else. I train wing chun and stop overhands, hooks and uppercuts. But I've gone out of my way to train with other people that train anything else but wing chun. I've done some mma and never took a beating like that!
I am actually starting to think it's the art. It's so mechanically faulty that the adaption it takes to make it effective sort of negates most of the stance and movement. Sort of like using the worst possible paint brushes to make a master piece. You can do it but you're not making it easy for yourself.
I agree with you in all honestly, it's not PC to say it but when the art In question is by far the most popular Chinese boxing style found everywhere, when you can find countless clips of it doing drills and forms bit precious little fighting clips, and those you can find are normally as bad as this or those that are good are disowned by other wing chun people as not good representation of their art (Alan Or for example) then it does start to look like its the arts fault and not the person doing it. Other Chinese arts have similar principles, hung gar pillar forms have goat stance, center line work, Elbows in and sunk and so on but they also emphasis other aspects such as long range strikes, head movement, hooks close range clinching etc and when you can find sparring clips from these styles you see they tend to all be the long range long arm stuff
Can understand where icefield and pretty in pink is coming from. That's a pretty big discussion there. I am Limited to my experiences. My experiences where different to what you have both stated. Totally agree that wing chun is probably one of the most popular Chinese arts. But does that mean it has also the possibility of being one of the most watered down arts depending on instruction to give one example. Wing chun could date back to 1800s. People where not the size they where now. Times change. If you fight like the wing chun fighter in the video your going to get the exactly the same results every time. There's no way I can punch some guy trying to take me down. I've seen how fast people can shoot. Sprawling is one option. If you stick to a really narrow base your going down no matter what. That's just standard fighting nothing to do with arts or styles.
I saw the video in another forum and that was, what I said too. Funny enough the first person two criticize him was, of course, a WT-person, explaining, that he didn't understood WT; otherwise he wouldn't have done something like this. Of course a person, that always argues, that she couldn't do proper sparring, because all her tools would be forbidden.
This style vs MMA, I am not sure why people still put themselves out there. Without cross training you are at a massive disadvantage. Definitely give the Wing Chun guy the props for the heart to keep going even though he was taking a beating, I hope he learns from that experience. Wing Chun is put on a pedestal far too often from it's popularity, it's a shame when art's are brought to fame and people carry the impression that they are the only thing required. Wing Chun certainly has a lot of limitations in it's toolset (from my limited experience/knowledge), like many other arts, the training format can help with a snippet of the total fighting ranges. I think a big pat on the back needs to go to the real hero here though: The referee!!! Lunging and rolling over the place to stop the Wing Chun guy taking too much damage -If I didn't know any better I would say he was a WuShu practitioner with those extravagant stoppages!! No chance, Tai Chi may be slow, but very deadly!
Really? Could you explain your reasons for this opinion? Just asking because in full contact fighting tourneys in Hong Kong and SE Asia during the later decades of the 20th century WC guys were almost non-existent.Unlike TC guys. In Hong Kong,the center of Slant Style WC it was CLF and WU (Ng) TC guys that ruled the rings.WC folks were pretty scarce.
Not sure this needs a comment. From same tournament/exhibition by looks of it. I will say this: both videos demonstrate the superiority of head movement, positioning and covering over arm blocking.
What was this tournament called "massacre of the wing chunners" ? and with one arm also, come on, what next, defeated with no hands sharp whit and soft insults only allowed and still defeated?
Literally: demolition by jab, hook and uppercut. Quite embarrassing. I have to be honest it does nothing but entrench the perception of modal wing chun training as being the complete antithesis of combat.
I don't know much about the Chun, can anybody explain how it is supposed to deal with any kind of angled punch? Is there literally nothing in the system to address hooks, uppercuts etc?
It's not an either-or, it's more nuanced than that, IMO. Some people start out with more attributes advantageous to fighting, but if you train dogmatically within a severely limited technical repertoire you can end up being less able to deal with violence than when you started. You can see those guys fall apart in the clinch because they are trying to stick to a system that has nothing for them to do in that situation. I've yet to see the good WC that people insist exists, and the people I've known who've studied it at run-of-the-mill schools came out of it with little-to-no applicable fighting skills, but this "competition" does seem a bit sus... a media stunt that is guaranteed millions of hits.
One thing that struck me about the WC v one armed boxer was how the Chunner realised his punches didn't have enough authority or power. They were ineffective so he started to really swing and get desperate to try and "find" some power to back the other guy off. Whereas the boxing knew what his punches were going to do and stuck to his mechanics even when he missed. I think it's a classic case of training for perceived effect rather than actual effect.
It's easy: all you need is someone who stands there without using distance or pivoting while you do your dance of death around them!
