Wing Chun punches VS Boxing jab and cross?

A

- striker may want to use one punch to set up another punch.
- grappler may want to use one punch to set up a clinch.

IMO, if you try to set up a clinch by your punch, the hook, uppercut, or back fist can do better job than the jab can.

 

Jab can be used to probe, find range, hide "heavy artillery" or cover and advance or a retreat

I have also KO'd people with a stiff lead, although that is as much timing as anything - catch them as they come in

 

Simon got in before me!

 

This will depend on whether you prefer to use your wrestling as your major, or you prefer to use your boxing as your major.

In wrestling, there are

- major hand (used to control your opponent's head and body), and
- minor hand (used to control your opponent's leading arm).

Also there are

- attacking leg, and
- rooting leg.

Since your major hand and attacking leg have to be in front (as close to your opponent as possible), you don't have any choice but to put your stronger side forward. IMO, to relearn your wrestling skill is much harder than to relearn your boxing skill.

 

In staff fight, if you want your staff to contact your opponent's staff, will you use "stab", or will you use "swing"?

If you want to use your punch to set up a clinch, you want your opponent to block your punch with arms contact. You don't want your opponent to dodge your punch. Since a straight line jab can be too fast and hard to block. A circular punch (such as hook, back fist) can have better chance to be blocked by your opponent's arm. You can then try to obtain your clinch after that.

 

When you try to create a clinch, you want your opponent to move in toward you. You don't want your opponent to move back away from you. A head level jab will have potential to force your opponent to move back. That's not what you want.

 

i'd say myself if i can get my left hook in there its game over, before my stepson moved in
i had a 3 foot bag hung packed with sand, it used to nearly fly off the hook, im not stating martial prowess just a very hard punch, so if i got someone with that they aint getting up, unless they have a concrete head like me, my dad taught me concrete head by using it as a punchball, boo hoo me

 

For me a jab is punch used to get a reaction. Some people back away from jabs, some people like to close down jabs, some people (like me) eat them and wonder why it hurts but everyone reacts to a good jab. You can form a plan around any reaction.

Wing chuners seem to follow after with another jab (ad nauseum) whereas boxers have more punching options after a jab. The follow up can be another jab (or rear hand jab) or a proper knockout WMD punch from almost any angle. I have not seen that variety from a 'chunner', most wing chun punches I have experienced have been quite similar (relatively) light non committal head/upper chest punches. In volume they definitely 'work' but I have yet to feel any with serious power. I do accept that the 'chunners' I have met are not experts so there may well be things I have not seen and there may be strengths and facets I have not experienced.

*Edit-I will admit I have a biased opinion here and have been on the thought impairment juice before writing this post. Appologies if it makes no sense, in the morning I should be able to fix it.

 

This strategy may have some problem.

The moment that your opponent dis-respect your punching power, the moment that you will be in trouble. IMO, it's better to throw few powerful punches than to throw a bunch of "lower power strikes".

When you opponent

- respect your punching power, even if you just move your arm a bit, your opponent will scare to death.
- look down on your punching power, even if you may make a mean looking face when you punch, your opponent may still smile at you.

 

Whilst I agree with the premise of fewer punches with more power in reality they do need to be set up. You cannot always open up with the heavy artillery, a boxer with good defence with block/parry or evade big heavy shots if there is no opening made for them and it can set you up nicely to be countered.

How fewer, stronger punches could be employed within wing chun I don't know but for boxing even big hitters who base their game on power need a jab.

 

The name "jab" comes from western boxing, that's why there is not an equivalent name for kicks. It just happens that lots of other arts have adopted the term.

The kick equivalent will often be called something like "low-line distraction" or similar. We're not as good at naming things in the West as we used to be.

I understand your logic, but I'm not sure why you are placing so much emphasis on grappling entries.

This thread is about Wing Chun and boxing, neither of which are known for their extensive range of grappling techniques.

 

Styles of jabs from the big boys

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBnBcGst5CI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBnBcGst5CI[/ame]

Interesting to see the differences. Lewis/Bowe have a very rangy and stinging blow, whereas someone such as Foreman really have some "oommph" behind the blow. The so called "weak punch" thrown by him would starch most people. Ali is a masterclass in the "bothersome" jab; it's always there, stopping an advance and creating a barrier (physically and psychologically) that you have to remove and get past and that brings you into range for his other shots that he was setting you for all the time.

Larry Holmes is a jab GOD! crisp, powerful and precise there have been few better at any weight with the tool

Now here is a master class with "The Executioner"

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xhvexh41LQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xhvexh41LQ[/ame]

Another variation

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUGbON4l4gc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUGbON4l4gc[/ame]

The JKD "Straight Lead" done by the GOAT in the ring

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZivZyLn3348"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZivZyLn3348[/ame]

 

This is my Sifu demonstrating the application of the "straight blast" or "jik chun choi" from a JKD perspective. Wing Chun is one of our parent arts and this is taken directly from it - it has been a staple of mine for years

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whN5OmhqxZg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whN5OmhqxZg[/ame]

The punches in and of themselves don't look especially hard (but trust me they hurt) but that is not the intent; it is the VOLUME of the shots that cause the distress, coupled with forward drive

A non-JKD/WC fight but clear application of same

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFRDFHZ8AaM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFRDFHZ8AaM[/ame]

 

as an aside, something i noticed in the singh video, and which i've always considered very important: the downwards element in the punches. power elements aside (it tends to create a strong structure), note especially in the parts where he throws just two punches, that the first one provokes a parrying reaction which moves downwards along with the attacking arm, and the second one comes in from above and outside the parrying arm and presses it down as it goes in, effectively trapping with the punch itself.

also, blatant bong sau at 2:30

 

Bingo!

Singh modified the old RAT blast and put some more formal WC structure back into the footwork - not that the PFS method is wrong just that we find this method more efficient for our end

There is also the "Bremer Blast" variation which Bob Bremer utilised - this was the punches delivered in an UPWARD motion. Not a fan of this personally because it doesn't suit me approach, but it IS another option