Wing Chun punches VS Boxing jab and cross?

So boxers throw vertical-fist jabs?

What happened to Icefield's point about vertical-fists being inferior to horizontal because of hooks and overhands?

 

Boxers throw whatever punch will do the job and, IIRC, aren't as tied to form and minutiae as other martial arts.
Sure the boxing jab tends to be horizontal fist, shoulder up, blah blah.
But they spot an opening and their hand is positioned is such a way that it's vertical then bam...they'll jab anyway.
Lee's pcture to me looks like an up-jab type punch.

 

Yeah, I found a couple of examples, but they are a very small minority.

Occam's razor would suggest to me that his straight lead is a WC/KF straight applied to fencing footwork.

I'm no expert on Bruce Lee, I could well be wrong.

 

Hey lookee look...a vertical jab by a boxer!



I think he's choosing to jab like that because it will slip between the gloves better.

 

Beat you too it

 

if you look at lee’s and not his fist he is side on, has his chin tucked behind his shoulder, his arms are side by side and not guarding the centreline, honestly it looks like he is trying to make the punch he learned in wing chun actually work in reality and crossing it with his boxing experience , of course that alters the body mechanics and really makes you wonder why he bothered

boxers can throw vert punches, but how many do, or are even taught too?

 

Yeah but that doesn't mean boxers didn't/haven't hit on doing a punch in the same way.
Just a different route to functionality.
Bruce Lee read championship fighting as well as drawing from fencing.

 

At least three!

 

Hence why I said "you".

 

I also think Bruce Lee is posing for a damn picture.
He's making sure he's giving it all a little bit of martial artsy finesse and polish.
It's also a picture from early in the JKD process I think and so I think his punch would change and develop over time and with more exposure to boxing I think he'd make less insistence on the fist being vertical in quite so stylised way.

 

Well, whad'ya know?

There are a couple of examples from Championship Fighting. Here's one.

Getting sort of back on topic, does anyone know where the other picture comes from? Looks like a lunging vertical-fist straight being blocked by a bong sau?

 

Vertical jabs either thumb up or over-turned (thumb down) are both great for slipping in between to gloves guarding a face. Less used in MMA because the gloves are so small.

Vertical fists are also used in hooks and uppercuts, depending on the angle/range/power you need/want to hit your target.

When your basics are solid, it's not hard to experiment with different punches like that. You need the solid basics first though

 

And he used nothing but Wing Chun style punches in said matches

Bruce used boxing punches when it was required and used Wing Chun when that was - "kick when you have to kick, punch when you have to punch" was a maxim.

Bruce did not abandon WC, he modified and augmented it

 

Jack Broughton's rules



Looks akin to a modern boxing cover or a destruction from kali too. Ken Norton used to box froma similar shell

 

Thanks!

The bong sau-esque block was a suprise to me!

 

Bong sau is a deflection or "stopper" more than a block - ironically it is used in modern boxing as such and will be used to arrest moementum and set up shots

Douglas used it against Tyson very well - examples include 0:38, 0:59, 3:19 in this highlight but the whole fight is on YT and is great to watch for

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_GvtIxhJyE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_GvtIxhJyE[/ame]

 

Yeah, I was just using "block" as an umbrella term for parry/deflect/stop.

Thanks for the video

 

In the next illustration (top right) he turns it over into what looks similar to
a tan sau to get on the inside and control his opponents punching arm.
Leaving aside arguments about relative effectiveness of WC and boxing punching,the mechanics of blocking in both arts share many similarities ,both ultimately reliant on
efficient footwork/body movement to be effective imho

 

I have been revisiting a lot of Wing Chun with Singh recently and keeop finding more of the "common thread" that Bruce was seeking

With regards to fist orientation, much of that changed as gloves were introduced. If you look at many BKB matches you will still see mant traces of the vertical fist in those from a lineage of BKB (as opposed to those who just do "boxing without gloves on").

The late great Bartley Gorman as an example

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGHZED86SgI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGHZED86SgI[/ame]

The fist is not exclusively used one way or the other in BKB, and many strikes will eb used to "cut" as much as concuss