Wing Chun a naming and killing martial art?

i think there was a thread on the goat riding stance a few years ago.
wing chun is the only martial art or athletic endeavour that limits the use of use hip rotation or extension in the generation of power. you see triple extension in the back foot off a cross in boxing along with rotation.

i understand that the logic behind the goat riding is that it trades power generation for protection of the groin and its supposed to be a dynamic stance

similarly though, karate is able to protect the groin, practice this and perform triple extension (and therefore greater power extension) by substituting groin attack for inside thigh attack in practice.

 

The stance as see in the forms isn’t how guys should fight with wing chun (although for the love of god some do seem to try to) , but even their staggered stance is flat footed and they seem to try to stay square on as you say limiting rotation and extension and reyling on mass moving behind the strike as you step in for power

(and quite why you feel the need for a training stance that is different from your fighting stance is another thread all together lol)

 

Back in my Wing Chun days I posted on a WC forum and Alan used to post there. His Wing Chun uses a lot of clinch fighting.

 

I've been this video several times already. I presume those in the video are Wing Chun practitioners from Mainland China who tend to challenge other forms of martial arts.

On the other hand, there are also videos in YouTube where Karate practitioner overpowers the Wing Chun fighter.

But again, it is usually the skills of the practitioner.

 

It sounds like in the old day, there were no wrestlers in the south part of China. The WC stance was created to defend against a groin kick, but was not created to defend against wrestler's "double legs".

 

Surely not?

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I came across this vid a few days ago and I'm almost ashamed to say I actually kinda liked it. Unlike your typical "style vs style" vids it's not just theory, the guy actually tries to use some basic training to stop himself being taken down. Then rather than lecturing on what he felt worked well without trying or showing it, he actually asked the opinion of the wrestlers he was paired with and tried to work with them. Since this guy has done a lot of vids I don't like, I was actually quite impressed with his attitude on this one.

Few things immediately jumped out at me:

1) Mild swearing.
2) He keeps saying "what could I do if I was striking?". My gut reaction was "fine, put gloves, mouth guards and head gear on and see what happens".
3) The WC guy does has a basic wrestling background (nothing too major, but clearly enough to make some difference and if anything reinforces the "cross training is good" idea).
4) It doesn't show WC to be as awesome as he feels it is (in my eyes).

All that said, here's the vid.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfJeXisksrs"]HOW TO BEAT A WRESTLER WITH WING CHUN - YouTube[/ame]

Anything painfully obvious I missed?

 

Right. For that there is tiger style.

The stance itself was not created for Wing Chun it is much, much older.

 

Izzo strikes again.

 

Well you wouldn't expect him to grapple so what's left but striking?

 

I know .

Like I said, I normally really don't like his vids, but at least he was putting in something resembling an effort in this one to try and make a point, rather than just saying "oh yeah, this totally works".

 

I would expect him to throw hook or uppercut. Straight punches just won't work well in the clinching range.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArQ7I2uK7mM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArQ7I2uK7mM[/ame]

 

I agree. And those techniques are already in the toolbox. The WT uppercut or "lifting punch" is a better option in the clinch.

As for the clip ...I'm at work and the internet is so slow that it keeps freezing up. Based on what little I could see, at least I'd give him props for really trying his stuff out and being adaptable.

 

OK, I just had a chance to watch the whole clip. I don't agree with a lot of what Izzo does in some of his clips, but his method of inquiry is right on the money.

If you want to train defense against wrestlers, you have to move beyond the old "Sifu says" syndrome and 1. You need a basic knowledge of wrestling, and 2. you have to spar and test your stuff against some decent wrestlers. Izzo has done both here.

Now I'd like to see him get the wrestlers to put on good head and neck protection so he could really work those strikes he keeps talking about and see how many good ones he can get in before the wrestler takes him down. Can he hit hard enough, enough times to stop the takedown or not? That's all that matters.

 

Izzo's problem is not his technique, or his search for better technique. I think he likes to challenge himself, for sure.

The problem lies in the ways he spams the internet about his quite radical Wing Chun methodologies, in a sometimes controversial way.

I personally think he displays both the best AND worst of the Chun community at the same time. He is the Chun Paradox.

The Chundox, if you will.

 

also goat riding stance + thai kick = knee snap

 

It was explained to me many years ago that the reason the feet were turned in in is because the glutes are turned of hence they can do siu lim tao slowly in that position for a hour or however long they are doing the form for and play chi sao for longer without creating tension,of course the pelvis should be neutral and the tounge in the correct position etc etc,perhaps these old timers knew more than given credit for about health and posture to? not everything is about fighting in Martial Arts

 

Maybe that's why at least some branches of WC never fight from yee gee kim yeung ma or "goat-riding" stance. For us it's mainly a training position that only appears in application when stepping or turning, as you transition from one stance to the next.

Then again, a really good Thai boxer might still snap your knee, but at least you wouldn't feel so stupid afterwards.

WWCD? (What Would the Chundox Do?)

 

Goat riding stance? More like human riding stance. There are a couple of Southern stances that build isometric "pinning" strength using the legs. Those interior thigh muscles are hard to isolate without modern equipment, but anybody can drop into YGKYM and "squeeze" to strengthen their inner thighs and overall frame using just their body weight.

Other stances strengthen the lower legs in the same way. Stop, drop, and endure the burn.

Maybe that is the ancient, lost secret of Wing Chun....all that chain punching and trapping is supposed to be done AFTER you've already mounted your "goat" using the YGKYM. Problem solved! Boxing, wrestling...absolutely nullified!!

Just another Wing Chun theory, but if you think about it using the YGKYM to actually grip another person while you strike the daylights out of them makes FAR more practical sense to me than using it as a stand up boxing stance. It's funny that in both judo and BJJ, you do use that exact type of "adduction" quite a lot. Top mount is impossible without it.

 

That was another thing a instructor explained to me Wooden Hare that the stance was used to shave goats and the guys who did that had real strong Adductors,anyone know why the tounge at the roof of the mouth?

 

I posted this in a different WC thread but it applies here as well.