Will the real Yang Family hand form stand up please!

However, regard to the title of this thread I am still convinced that "the real Yang Family hand form" is that practiced by Yang Cheng Fu!
Others "ortiginal", "old", "secret", "fast",.. forms are only personal interpretations of the Yang style TJQ.

 

So that's how you hurt your neck....

 

The Imperial frames where probably some of the first ones taught. I think these may have kept a more Chen style influence. Yang Lu Chan propably figured it would be best to throw the kitchen sink into this system, to impress the prince greatly. I think the family system and the ones they passed on and the Imperial court system were both/all complex and deep..but not the same..at the same time I think the Yangs all developed their own 'styles' and in turn some of these were developed to the taste of some practitioners.

It wouldn't surprise me 'hao chuan'/loose boxing of WTBA reflects elements of Imperial system.

Any thoughts on these ideas..?

cheers

 

I believe Ma Yueh-liang said that the Wu Style slow Tai Chi form came from the fast form. If this is correct, it would suggest that the original Yang Style form was also a fast form, and that the slow form was a later development.

I'm convinced that the 'hao chuan'/loose boxing of WTBA is a quite recent invention.

 

cheers Uncle Bill, over the holidays i was checking out a few other forums where I found some interesting threads..this sifustier guys sounds knowledgable and some of the things he says rang a few bells from my perspective..especially that this sort of set was being taught in the seventies. I am certainly resigned to practicing mongrel taiji but I'm still quite loathe to consider it 'a new invention'. Do you think it could be a wudangshan taiji system? I've seen a clip of one that has this sort of flavour. I'm not meaning wudang as in 'original' .


heres a couple of threads - that are quite interesting for the 'old yang' brigade

http://www.ymaaschool.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=794
http://www.wongkiewkit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3061

does anyone know of Imperial Yang style in the UK. Is there any?

 

The often called 'fast form' is correctly called 'long boxing' and the version practised by the Yang Family is a little different to that commonly passed as their 'fast form'. It was the family advanced form. There is some good historical information on Peter Lim's site here:

http://www.itcca.it/peterlim/ycflbox.htm

 

Hi steve, that is a great site, cheers. I'd love to know your opinion on the old yang of WTBF. Does it resemble in anyway long boxing or usage frames that you know of ?

I'm guessing you've been around the scene in UK for some time. Did you ever hear of a similar style being taught in around London in the late seventies? with all the dim mak and disruption techniques as a part of application ?
I'd imagine whoever came up with/ devoloped the set/system was accomplished in these arts

In reading Robert Smiths 'chinese boxers' that the Yangs were well known for there vital point striking. Do you think there was/is an 'older' set that is geared more toward this usage. A senior classmate of mine told me that our 'old' set is traditionally taught in nine stages. I wasn't taught it so formally, but my teacher kept introducing variations and new ways of doing things as you go along. It is a pretty hard set to learn & the chen bits are . . When EM say he didn't invent it, I lean towards believing him. ..

which is the usual scenario on this topic.

regards
geo

 

Yes, the Wu slow form came after the fast form. My understanding is that the fast form is more like the original Chen style. The Wu slow form and the Yang slow form were developed at the same time.

Ma Yueh Liang stated that the Yang fast form died with Yang Cheng Fu. But it seems reasonable to assume that it must have had a lot in common with the Wu fast form, since the original Yang slow form (which is very rare indeed) is very similar to the original Wu slow form.

 

from what I've seen..
yup, i think this is right

 

It's nothing like anything I've learned.

TBH the only people I remember teaching in the '70's in London was Chu King Hung and Rose Li.

Certainly within the teaching of Ma Lee Yang in HK (Yang Sau Chungs daughter) everything is still taught within the YCF form and long boxing. What she is teaching now as far I can see wasn't even taught to her fathers disciples. She teaches the kung fu skills in 'layers' that seems never ending! Rather than different 'frames' it seems that there is taiji, taiji kung fu and then 'family' taiji.

I stay out of the politics in taiji and don't really care who' better than who or who's lineage is this that or the other. As I said previously, it either works or it doesn't. With MLY I've been there a good few times, I come from a security environment and can categorically state that IMO what she teaches works better than anything else I've ever seen.

 

Steve,

I would be most interested in hearing about those "layers" that you are talking about. Can you be more specific? I am learning within the same lineage and am naturally curious of others training practices. I've heard different information than what you have quoted above, but I am always open to learning more. On another note, and I mean no offense but for someone who tries to "stay out of the politics in taiji" you certainly expressed an opinion for one side over the others. Just saying.....

 

Cheers steve, I agree with your 'what works' sentiments..

It must be great to have the goods directly from such a close family member, thanks for sharing your knowledge of the Yang style with us.

 

Unfortunately I can't in open forum because it would be wrong to try and describe that which needs to be taught in person, it would misrepresent the teaching. If you want to PM, email me privately, or meet - I'm happy to discuss whatever I can. My opinion is just that... mine alone.

 

ok, thanks steve. i sent you a pm.