Will the real Yang Family hand form stand up please!

Hi guys

Been away from the forum for a while so I missed this one... unfortunately I bought the video of the first one - should have known better! But I liked his suit. Second one looked like an old hunchback having an epileptic fit.

I think you can argue lineage until the cows come home - either it works or it don't.


Steve

 

Steve, leave that common sense approach of yours at home guy, it has no place here.

Anyway I happen to know the real number IS 65. For only $9.95 I can teach you the authentic, original Yang form and anti gravitational method

 

or an authentic transmission of the Yang Ban Hou line can be learnt in the traditional manner from the excellent teachers here www.ukbaguainstitute.co.uk

 

Please show or explain the lineage of their root back to Yang Ban Hou as I know of no genuine one in the west.

 

Just to remind you: Did Mr Tian make a mistake, or did you? He said 64, you say 66. Which is it?
STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER RICHARD
:Angel:

 

Taiji Butterfly - do you think that the exact counting of the postures matter?
Also same masters counts the same form in different way!

Richard Dunn - Also Jwing-Ming Yang said that his form is from Yang Ban Hou

Geo - What is "authentic" transmission (of the Yang Ban Hou) and what is not is very subjective. I am also interested to know from who learned the masters at that webpage!?

 

Not in the slightest m8 lol - but Richard prides himself on knowing everything and being party to 'higher knowledge', so I guess he does....
I just want to see if Richard will admit to making a mistake or his master making a mistake - it's a perfectly simple question, don't you think? 64 or 66?
I'm actually just interested in the answer, but he thinks I am lower than pondlife (as I think he feels about everyone on MAP tbh - I have evidence of this) and I am just exposing his superior, condescending attitude for what it is.
...Alternatively I'm giving him a chance to behave like a decent human being (which he used to be before he got drunk on power lol) and to talk to another tjq practitioner as an equal for a change...

How about it Richard?
:Angel:

 

Can you answer my question, please, Richard? :yeleyes:

 

master He Jin Han of the Yin Fu line of ba gua is also an adept of Yang Ban hou line Tai Chi. He taught this system to my teacher and friend Alex Kozma. Alex has also studied in several other lines of the Yang style including ban hou lines from other teachers.

People who wanna check out Alex's Tai Chi (doubters and believers ... ha ha ha) can come along and train with him on the 29th of this month.

PM me for details

Kindest Regards
Chris

 

I could say I trained under Attilla the Hun, but would that make it true? Provide a lineage.

 

I don't get why some people are so obsessed by the issue of lineage. :bang:

What does it matter??

Most lineages are shrouded in mystery, confusion and questionable claims, which are argued about and constantly disputed. These people all claim to have the one and only real taiji.

Face facts people, until there is retrospective time travel we will never know or prove the history of taiji.

Books can have been written and rewritten by anyone.
Photos and videos can be manipulated.

Let it go.
Stop wasting your energy (sic) on the unprovable and get on with your taiji journeys.

 

Just a clarification. Traditionally if you you quote a line or state your teaching comes from person **** then you should be able to provide the names of everyone in your line back to the person quoted. That way it can be verified. Unless you can do that it is either pipedreams or should not be quoted.

 

Just another clarification, while we're at it - traditionally when someone asks you a question you answer it, Richard.... 64, 66.... last chance or it's home truths time... :bang:

 

Richard,

I dont have to prove anything on a discussion board. I know of lineage people with little to no real or deep skill ... resting on the larrels of those who came before you is a weak stance.

You seem to think you are somehow important. Good for you. I freely admit that i am a beginner.

Keep up the training ... someday you may get somewhere ... have to drop the ego first though.

Take good care.

Chris

 

There is a Chinese saying "ghost don't speak", what it means is that when someone of consequence dies within a martial art family everyone who can claims close association. This is why the lineage system was arrived at. It has nothing to do with privacy. It is honesty and a way around false claims. You see from my conversations with master Tian, he says no one publically carries on Ban Hou's line, (though privately there are strong associations) especially not in the west. And he laughs at people who say they do. He says "ask them their lineage and I will confirm it for you". So I ask you and you cannot reply.

No one in the traditional forms of Tai-Chi should ever deny their lineage publically, it is their only way of providing authenticity to their claim. I claim lineage to Yang Jian Hou, it is very easy - Tian Ying Jia - Tian Zhao Lin - Yang Jian Hou. From my old teacher I had lineage to Yang Sau Chung, again easy - Ding Teh Chien - Ip Tai Tak - Yang Sau Chung, get the idea!!

 

Your real lineage is: Tian Ying Jia - Paul Daniels - Tian Zhao Lin - Yang Jian Hou

 

That would explain a lot....

 

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

to clarify. 'authentic' is subjective. I was expressing opinion on a subject.
My opinion is a peanut in a mountain of peanuts the size of Everest. A personal opinion based on a limited experience. My experience is not even beginner. It is still an incomplete first step.
Also was having some banter. " it was him sir...he made me do it!"

Didn't realise this was a lineage examination Richard..apologies..all round too. I respect with people valuing a lineage. It may not surprise any of you, but for me it is neither here nor there. I think ghosts can talk. All you need is the right person to tune you into the right frequency so you can 'listen in'.

Real hand forms? take your pick. . They are containers and learning tools. As far as I can tell there are 37 different movements/postures that basically comprise the Yang taijiquan. the outside look and choreography of *real* in this case can vary as does content..Did the Yangs know this? well isn't it glaringly obvious??
I'll bet the ghosts of the past are laughin' their ass's off.. just an opinion mind.


Regards geo

 

Im sure they are.

Cheers
chris

 

You see, you and middleway are deliberately smudging the issue, for what reason I will leave others to judge. At no point have I mentioned anything to do with ability, or that coming from a lineage makes you more skilled. It gives you better more fertile ground to grow from that is all. It is up to the individual how he grows. A lineage, and especially in this case, is for both historic and advertising purposes, which is why it is only used within the public lines. Some of the most senior Tai-Chi is from private lines and you know nothing and hear nothing of them.

This conversation occured because a post said that genuine Yang Ban Hou tuition could be obtained from a such and such school, now from my information that is not probable, but not impossible, which is why for my own interest I enquired the lineage as that is the only way to check on authenticity. Now when ever I have done this in the past to other dubious claims one is either provided as in Steve Higgins (Canada) claim to Tian Zhao Lin, in this case it turned out to be partly right as the line led to public (parks) student of TZL. But this makes the line tenuous as the parks students didn't get that much. But OK. In another case regarding a claim back to Yang Jian Hou by those who do Tai-Chi out of Lam Kam Chuen in the UK turned out to be a fabrication. Also if nothing is provided as there is no lineage list then it is just wishfull thinking or plain deliberate deception. In this case all the bluster and smokescreen appears with "well it doesn't matter anyway". So why bring it up in the first place?