Discussion in 'Karate' started by wado nasskc, Nov 13, 2006.

  1. wado nasskc

    wado nasskc Valued Member

    karate in the street why not ?

    why do people say karate wouldnt be effective in a real fight ? it gets you phisical fit fast and strong. it provideds good kicks and punches also locks and throws and other self defence moves. people say there are no rules in the street ? that also helps the karate practitioner as he can make use of everything he knows even the knees, elbow strikes, eye gouges or groin strikes. if an untrained person can do what they want in a street fight what stops a karate guy or girl using what they know about karate and anything else they know to win the fight. i know alot of people who study karate who would lash most people in a street fight without even breaking a sweat and theve done it before when the need arised. anyone else think this or is it just me ?
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2006
  2. Llamageddon

    Llamageddon MAP's weird cousin Supporter

    I think it's like this for a few reasons:

    Firstly, when people see the average karate-ka train, it looks like just punching and kicking the air, so immediately they get the wrong idea.

    Secondly, alot of schools are unfortunately rubbish, probably down to a relatively inexperienced instructor, or because the class is far too big.

    But then all you have to do is read stories of when Terry O'Neill was a doorman... jeeeeesus. Look at Enoeda, Nakayama... Basically anyone who trains proficiently in the art, but keeps their head on their shoulders, and understands both the limitations and advantages of what they are doing, will get ahead.

    I remember a few weeks back, some cocky boxer kid coming to our class and asking our sensei if we train hard, because he 'trains hard, man.'

    He lasted two lessons.
  3. wado nasskc

    wado nasskc Valued Member

    i think alot of people see one part of a lesson and they may be kicking air and think thats all they do and leave and wont come back. but later in the lesson dont see the conditioning the CONTACT sparing at least between the older students and all the work rate on the pads practicing the techniques they have learned. the people at my club can get scary amounts of power behind there techniques because they have practiced it many times. kicking air is only a small part of karate training and does help to refine your technique. they need to see some people spar then mabey theyl change there mind on karates effectiveness. just because you may point spar at competiton does not mean that only point sparing is practiced. i do point sparing stop start rules but i also do HARD CONTACT CONTINUES sparin as well. theres nothing wrong with doin both. also the katas and kihons e.c.t are fun to do and make it more challenging to get the higher belts. people probly critise kata and other parts as useless because they cant do it and cant be bothered to put the effort in to learn it and just want a quick black belt to sound hard. Also karateka are very tough well at least the ones i know. i know someone who fractured his thumb performing a ridge hand strike at competition and walked over to the side got it poped back into place and came back and won the fight.
  4. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    I think there's a little bit of this, but I think a lot of the criticism towards karate comes from people who want to do something more overtly "macho" where you oil up and fight big guys in your underpants. Horses for courses I guess.
  5. Ular Sawa

    Ular Sawa Valued Member

    You basically hear that same arguement about any traditional art whether it be Karate, Kung Fu, or whatever. Keep in mind it often depends on the individual and how they train as to whether they're effective on the street.
  6. karate princess

    karate princess Savvy??

    Because most people don't get to see the full contact stuff, and judge on point sparring and our pretty kata!
  7. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Perhaps because most karateka practise defending themselves against Karate attacks in a clinical environment rather than likely attacks.

    Are you sure your boxer only lasted 2 sessions because you were all too good for him? Perhaps he went back to boxing only for a 'better; workout as what he did there seemed more relevant and more mentally/physically demanding? I imagine I'd struggle with the types of techniques and combinations taught in most Karate dojos these days. :D

    Just playing Devils Advocate here... :Angel:
  8. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    Now be honest JW, it's the lure of fighting big guys in your underpants really isn't it? :D
  9. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Now you know I don' go in for all that Lycra. :eek: If anything I pile on more layers of clothing than most Karateka. :D See attachment.

    There is of course nothing wrong with Karate Gis - even if you do get mysterious brown stains at te base of the jacket like Shoto_can. :eek:

    Please note that the attached picture is the property of Blauer Tactical Systems and is taken from their High Gear catalogue.

    Attached Files:

  10. bcullen

    bcullen They are all perfect.

    I'm looking for an art where you oil up and fight petite women in your under pants. I know it's not real macho, but it sounds like a lot of fun. :D
  11. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Because many people think that training is the most important factor in a real situation, when in fact, experience and attitude generally have much more influence on the outcome.

    When a boxer fights in the ring or spars, he/she is not just training, but also gaining some experience against fighting a resisting opponent. When military forces have live fire exercises, they are not just training but gaining experience in a combat environment. This experience earned is going to hardwire the actions most likely taken in a real situation.

    When a person is determined to hurt you no matter what or refuses to ever give up, they are exhibiting an attitude that might be superior to another that is willing to give up or is unsure of themselves. The superior attitude is in many cases going to come up on top.

    I'm not saying training isn't important, it is very important, it is just that experience and superior attitude often have more influence on the outcome of a real situation.

    Many karateka (or any martial artist) may find they lack in experience and attitude for a real situation. Because of lack of experience, many may come into a real situation "half-speed" like a sparring match, when instead their enemy comes full bore from the get go to take them out. Very quickly they are in a struggle against a full speed opponent in close quarters and they don't know what to do. They forget their training.
  12. Hiroji

    Hiroji laugh often, love much

    hehe! i love how you sneak in your little mma digs every now and again ;)
  13. Peter Lewis

    Peter Lewis Matira Matibay

    Hi All

    I am really enjoying this thread and this is something of great personal interest to me.

    My situation is a little different to many people. While I believe that most situations can be avoided, or it is possible to talk it down, or run away, I do not have the latter option of running away. I was born with clubbed feet and now have arthritis in my ankles and so, physically, I cannot run. This means that, when there is no option, I must have techniques that will work when I need them.

    I have been involved in martial arts for nearly 34 years, of which 20 were spent in Karate. This gave me discipline, power, determination, accuracy, timing and knowledge to defend myself. I had to use it twice, when I had no option and it certainly did not let me down. That said, I think that it is the training methods and focus of training which will help Karate to work. Without mentioning names, there have been National Champions who have taken a good kicking in the street, simply because they were trained to pull punches to the face and did exactly that in the street!!! So, for Karate to be effective, there needs to be plenty of impact work on bags or pads and also lots of conditioning to take punishment under pressure.

    Where I felt far less confident in using karate was against edged weapons. People do not attack from 10 feet away with a loud KIAI. To help understand the intricacies and dangers of bladed weapons assault, I opted for the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) which are, in my view, streets ahead of most martial arts. This decision came because of honest analysis of my own capabilities and the realisatioin that I was weak in a certain range or scenario. What this highlighted to me was the need to feel confident and competent in as many fighting ranges as possible. If there is a weakness in training methods, effort or a particular range, that is where problems will occur under the pressure of a real confrontation.

    I now only practice and teach the Filipino Martial Arts. The motto of Bakbakan International: "Learn Well. Train Hard. Fight Easy" is applicable in any martial art.

    Good luck in you continued search for answers.


    Peter Lewis - 5th Dan
  14. karate princess

    karate princess Savvy??

    That's a lovely quote. :D
  15. Peter Lewis

    Peter Lewis Matira Matibay

    Thanks KP. Keep it in mind and it will not let you down.

    It also applies to general training. Imagine the grading situation. Many people do general training, then try to focus on the grading requirements during the two weeks prior to the "Big Day." I have seen very high ranking instructors actually supporting this practice.

    Now turn it on it's head. You spend the two weeks after the last grading to learn all requirements for the next one. Then you practice like mad for the next ten weeks. The grading will, and rightly so, be far easier to handle.


  16. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    Hey, I'm not prejudiced! I was generalising to all the martial arts where you fight oily men in your pants! :Angel:
  17. Llamageddon

    Llamageddon MAP's weird cousin Supporter

    aaah JW. I suppose it is possible that what you say is the case. I thought about that myself. But the pools of his sweat on the floor and the mad gasps of breath sort of made me think he couldn't handle our air punching wussieness... :Angel:
  18. Llamageddon

    Llamageddon MAP's weird cousin Supporter

    I don't think I like what you're insinuating here! :eek:
  19. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Your initial quotation of his words suggested that what you have said above may have been the case, but I thought I ought to check. :D
  20. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    I was insinuating that you'd had a quick bacon buttie with brown sauce post training without changing to satisfy your hunger. What did you think I was insinuating? :cool:

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