Why the Bujinkan sucks

But is it written that way in the Takagi Yoshin ryu densho? Or better to say every copy of the Takagi Yoshin ryu densho?

Can you provide more examples from various shihan to support this? I'm not trying to argue; I'm merely questioning your resources.

Can anyone here who regularly trains in Japan with a shihan support what he's saying? Seriously. I have a copy of the Takagi Yoshin ryu densho in a box around here somewhere that I can't locate at the moment. The only thing I have to go by is Hatsumi sensei's last book and it's description of kasumi dori doesn't mention anything about hon gyaku.


- Mark Spada

 

That is a fair question. I don't know if it is written but this is what I was told here. I encourage anyone to step up and add on.

The point was straight down so ukemi couldn't be taken. Most of the techniques in the shoden of techniques and the promotional video show proof of that. Of course, you have to remove the base. That is where some of the Aiki like movement is from or they just move the feet/knee right from under them.

Extra point: I was also told the Gogyo no kata came from Takagi Yoshin Ryu and not Koto ryu like a lot people believe.

Off to bed.

 

What is everybody talking about? Is this the answer to the thread question? It might be.

 

Damn, double post. My bad.

The keyboard warriors are out in force tonight :hat:

 

As I understand it, the wrist control characteristic of Takagi Yoshin ryu (or it's omote level at least), seen in kasumi dori, katamune dori etc. is called kote gyaku in the ryuha itself. It's closest to ura gyaku from Bujinkan kihon, and often gets called ura gyaku, but it differs in a few respects.

The movement of the omote level is characteristically along a forward/backward line with tight turns on the spot and dropping to one knee.

I've also seen kasumi dori taught in which the kime is applied as a hon gyaku from standing in a deep stance. Again from my understanding, honden is to apply the kote gyaku all the way to the finish. There should also be a kick to the flanks at the end which the hon gyaku in deep stance version prevents.

Interesting last couple of pages, bar the sniper fire.

 

Hi, George!

We're currently discussing Kierkegaard's postulation that objective analysis espoused by science and scholarship directly oppose Christianity and its insistence on faith and subjectivity, in broad strokes.

How are you? You're lookin' good today, buddy!


- Mark Spada

 

I don't know of a single Gyokko Ryû technique where you can take ukemi if done properly.

A certain (japanese) shihan in the Bujinkan has said that to me as well. I do not know where he has gotten that information from - he also said it's name is not "san shin no kata", that that is a confusion stemming from the "sanshin tsuki".

Since then I have seen material that makes me positive that the Sanshin/gogyô no kata comes from Gyokko Ryû (I don't think anyone believes it comes from Kotô Ryû? Would be funny if someone did. But of course there exists Sanshin in Kotô Ryû as well.)

 

I can't believe I just skimmed over this.

Hon gyaku, much like take ori or conceivably any other lock, is about breaking....regardless of whether or not you manage to subdue the person whom you are applying it to.

Who exactly told you that Takagi Yoshin ryu was a "Body Guard School"? And what exactly is a "Body Guard School"?


[ame="http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00Kvyw7AEKU"]http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00Kvyw7AEKU[/ame]


Something like this?


- Mark Spada

 

A school that's development was influenced by the role of close protection duties.

I would imagine

But you knew that

I think there's a good chance certain otome ryu covered such things.

 

Thanks for clearing that up for me Mark.Can I be a Crusader?

 

Yes I did. :hat: However, I have never seen nor heard any evidence to support that Takagi Yoshin ryu was specifically a school for "body guarding", so to speak. At the last Kacem Zoughari seminar I attended where the subject matter being covered was material from Takagi Yoshin ryu someone asked Kacem this question ( is this in fact a "body guard school" ) to which he replied in the negative. I'm only citing this because someone like Kacem would undoubtedly know better than I would about this. If my information is incorrect then I'm sure someone here will point it out.

It may be that, along with JWills notion of the term "subdue" in terms of bujutsu ryu, the idea of a school specifically for the training of body guards in pre-Meiji Japan might be a bit misleading.


- Mark Spada

 

George....you can be whatever you want to be, buddy!

Heck, if you clear the table and do your homework, you can even be a Paladin with 18+ Charisma and The Mace of Cuthbert(TM)!


- Mark Spada

 

His online internet shihan teachers must have told him. As well as his misunderstanding where the gogyo waza is from.

The internet has failed him...

 

Kikentai,

Really? Is that also where that Japanese Shihan and Big Will got it from? You know better than them about this topic? I have been to all the Bujinkan Japanese Shihan dojos and some those Japanese Shihan no longer in the Bujinkan who still teaches. Two outside of the Bujinkan not visited, one is the Genbukan and the other is the guy in the Gyokko ryu video. He is the only one successfully avoiding the cuts from Nagato while training with Nakadai and Nagase. His dojo is in Tokyo I heard and is possibly a closed door dojo.

One in the Bujinkan has said it and two outside of the Bujinkan. I and some other groups were told by a Bujinkan Shihan in class and I later asked the other two.

Kikentai,

You got a better answer?

 

I never meant specific training school for Body Guards but like Dean Winchester pointed out. Subdue could be misunderstood. My definition includes the possibility of broken bones, torn ligaments, blood shed and death.

 

Yeah, I do. You're wrong!

That stuff you wrote above has no bearing on anything, there isn't a reason to trust anything you write. If they told you that nonsense then they have misunderstood you. The gogyo isn't a part of Takagi Yoshin ryu, or takagi ryu. Ask a menkyo kaiden holder.

 

Wow, so you are saying that you know more than a Japanese Shihan about this area? Do you have a Menkyo Kaiden? What's the reason for trusting anything you write? You have the anonymous name. Someone else has already confirmed hearing the same thing.

What's your evidence or you just blowing hot air?

Did they also misunderstand Big Will as well? I didn't ask for this info from the Japanese Shihan he simply told us to clarify some points between Kihon Happo and Gogyo no kata.

 

Well, that's all fine and good. But you said that Gyokko ryu "stategy" was not to subdue. And now you are saying that "subdue" could mean death.....which is why I initially asked you to provide evidence of your knowledge and understanding of these ryu-ha, especially considering the fact that by the way you were expressing yourself you were suggesting that there was a signifcant difference between the "strategy" of Takagi Yoshin ryu and Gyokko ryu.

But so far you are pulling a Garth-style "because some guy in Japan told me then it must me true".

Let's see....why does the Bujinkan suck again?



- Mark Spada

 

Well it was nice while it lasted..........






:bang:

 

I'm basically saying, I don't have any reason at all to believe anything you write.

And, what you do write has a tendency to be wrong 99 percent of the time.

I'm simply saying you are wrong.