Oh fair enough then. If you had full contact particularly in mind when making that statement then I guyss what I said doesnt really apply
My old MMA coach leg kicked a guy who wasn't expecting it. The man was in his face getting very abusive and threatening. The kick took him off his feet and so shocked and hurt him that he just limped away without saying a word. For the record my ex coach is about 70kg. Hitting somone with a solid leg kick when they a) aren't expecing it, and b) aren't used to dealing with them is quite an effective technique for the street IMHO. Although I do agree that boxing is the most fundimental skill for self defence.
I've got a video of Russ winning a title (I think) with 6 low kicks. TKO in the first round. That was against a conditioned athlete. He's 5'6" and wasn't very heavy at all back in the day
fair enough im not downplaying kickboxing at all, its fundamental in my opinion, i just think boxing comes first :hat:
I always thought that a front push kick or teep to the lower abdomin or groin would be a good street tactic. Your chances of missing are low, your opponent won't expect it, your opponent won't be able to walk through it, and it's outside of wild haymaker range.
I train partly for self defence and, as I travel mainly by public transport, the few occasions I have had to defend myself have been on the jolting floor of a bus or train where kicking is practically impossible. In such a situation you are really limited to punching or some limited grappling. Consequently boxing is well adapted to what I need. It also works well on more stable footing such as the street; although I have never found it necessary to fight in the street as I have always been able to see ahead and get away from trouble. The limited number of techniques in boxing also means you are able to get very good at what you do. This also stands you in good stead if trouble comes your way.
Why not study both? I train in both Boxing and Muay Thai, so I'm taking a bit of a gamble here. The foot work in Muay Thai is something that I am familiar with as I come from a Taekwon-do background. The foot work in Boxing is a little strange for me as its side on, but when giving and receiving punches it makes more sense. Bobbing and slipping is much more effective too when side on. In Boxing I make sure that I lead with my shoulder, in Muay Thai I make sure that I lead with my knee. Both martial arts are full contact (thank god for that) At the club I attend I often see the Muay Thai members square off with the Boxers. The result is that Muay Thai fighters and even more so with Kickboxers is that they need distance to throw an effective kick. Once a Boxer gets in close enough, its lights out. I have to come to really respect Boxing. If you can get your head around the differences then more power to you. Here's an example between the differences; [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDQvRj8I_Ws"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDQvRj8I_Ws[/ame] If the boxers leg's were more conditioned he probably would of won the match. But I've gotta to hand it to him, he gave the Muay Thai boxer a good run for his money. If it were a pure boxing match the Boxer would of won hands down. Here's another example with Boxing vs WTF Taekwon-do; [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klx92Bls08I"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klx92Bls08I[/ame]
We should all train & cross train in as many disciplines a we can. Learn everything you can from anywhere you can. Apply it to yourself, your body/mindset/spirit & you will be a well rounded fighter IMHO. Thanks, Tom
I've trained in boxing for about a year before moving on to Muay Thai. Every once in a while, I would do boxing again, and whenever I do, my punches would suck. My stance gets very loose and sloppy, my punches lose their snap, the whole thing feels very awkward and frustrating. That's when I realized that boxing and kickboxing are very different. The latter just doesn't have the same level that the former has in terms of punching. Boxing's stance is airtight, while Muay Thai adopts a looser stance in order to accommodate clinches, kicks, and much more techniques. Since boxing focuses on punches alone, it trumps kickboxing in terms of punches. I heard that some Thai boxers, Donnie Baker of Old Style Muay Thai (Blogspot) for example, do a boxing-only session at least once a week (and note how sloppy their hands have gotten after just a short period of time). Some time ago, an instructor told me about this time he fought a Thai boxer (as in, a Thai national doing Muay Thai). The Thai threw nothing but kicks one after the other. Now, here in Manila, boxing's a bit popular, and many kickboxers here have substantial training in boxing. And so, what he did was simple close the distance and finish him with a flurry of punches. Bottom line, kickboxing is no guarantee that you will receive good training in punches. Hope my reply helps!
I know this thread is about boxing v kickboxing as opposed to Muay Thai but since the latter is being discussed I thought I'd ask some questions: - When Ikken Hissatsu used to post here, he used to say that in his opinion the main advantage Muay Thai had over boxing for self-defence was not its kicks (as one would be unlikely to use them much, if at all, in self defence) but its clinch work. I know this thread's about boxing v kickboxing rather than MT but since the latter has been discussed a lot here I thought I'd raise the point to see what you guys thought. - My understanding is that in the early days of "American rules" kickboxing tournaments, whereby you can't kick to the legs or using the shin, "normal" boxers used to clean up could close the distance more easily than anticipated, which prompted the governing body to introduce a rule forcing competitors to use kicks. Is that the case? - In my brief exposure to Muay Thai I found that the guys at the club could punch pretty damn hard, at least by my standards lol. Although I have no problem believing that someone who focused purely on boxing would be better at punching, it was pretty clear to me that these guys were still way better at punching than most people, in addition to having the aforementioned clinch and kicking skills. As such, for self-defence purposes at least, surely the compromise pays off?
When I did Kyokushin (20 years ago, in college) a training partner of mine ended a fight in a bar with one leg kick. That stuck with me, because I was impressed by the fact that he was able to end a fight without having to cause a head injury to his opponent. It is a great self defense technique, but it does not cause lasting brain damage. ...As for boxing, the cool thing about it is that real gyms are usually inexpensive and the training is as good as it gets. Kickboxing's a little trendy these days with most MMA/Muay Thai gyms charging $120-$150 a month in my city. In contrast, most boxing gyms are $50 a month of less and can have coaches who are very skilled.
There is different governing bodies in Ireland and they all do the Minimum kicks a round have to be thrown rules, some 5 some 6 kicks a round, This is clearly to stop Boxers from just mincing the kickboxers, i know a few boxers who compete and win Kickboxing tournaments when they dont win the Boxing ones at there standard, i've sparred many Kickboxers of supposedly similar level to my Boxing and to say there easy is an understatement! I also train many Kickboxers Boxing as the best Kickboxers know they need help with there hands to be the best..
In my experience you are much more likely to end a street fight with one good punch than with one good kick. I'd say many people prefer Boxing for that reason
Yeah people need to be very definate about the difference about muay thai and kickboxing when posting their answers from what I've read so far. As I see it, boxing is very effective for a self defense situation and as has previously been asked and answered, YES most Full Contact kickboxing associations are basically just poor boxing with a minimum kick rule enforced. If you're doing Muay Thai you can still learn to box if you're at a good school but you won't learn many of the subtlties and other things that pure boxers need for their sport. Hell, head movement is VERY limited in thai boxing unless you want a knee in the face. But don't forget that Thailand has produced some very good pure boxers at the lower weight classes and most of them also train and fight under thai rules. Anyways, sorry for adding my bit on muay thai but just wanted to clear that up. Personally, if I wanted to learn to box, I'd go to boxing and if I wanted to compliment it with EFFECTIVE kicks, I'd go to thai boxing. I'm not putting kickboxing down, I think they can fight and do fight hard but as I said on another kickboxing forum lately, kickboxing has nothing that you can't find better elsewhere. If you like boxing, watch or train boxing. If you like kicking, watch or train muay thai cos the kicking's better there also. If you like the combination without the clinch and knees etc for some strange reason then watch and train in K1 style kickboxing. Don't bother with Full Contact.
