Why so many high grades

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by Lord Bathmat, Mar 2, 2010.

  1. Lord Bathmat

    Lord Bathmat Valued Member

    Hi All,

    One thing I have noticed more in the FMA than in other martial arts is there seems to be a greater number of Grand Masters.

    Secondly there seems to be a greater number of FMA practitioners with high grade Black Belt (eg 5th Dan and above) but have only trained for a relatively short time eg 10 to 15 years.

    Does anybody know why?

    Regards

    LB
     
  2. Mananandata

    Mananandata Valued Member

    I guess FMA doesn't put much importance to grades, blackbelts, masters, grandmasters or whatnot that it can afford to just give them away at a drop of a stick.
     
  3. flo0d

    flo0d Dingo

    Interesting point.

    I noticed the other day that Ciriaco "Cacoy" Cañete of Eskrido was a 12th dan. I was always under the impression that 10th was the highest.

    What is the difference between a 10th and 12th dan??

    peace
     
  4. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Well, he did create eskrido, so he can pretty much dictate 1) what the highest dan is and 2) who gets one.

    Really, it's no different from granting yourself a belt that reads "THE Big Kahuna." It's just a clear indicator that you're IT. The specific scale that they're using is always variable.

    Ranks and titles and wotnot are really just tools that the community uses to convey to people (both inside and outside of the community) their experience in a succinct way. Even though direct experience and observation of those teachers is always going to provide a more thorough assessment.


    Stuart

    EDIT: I'm suddenly reminded of that scene from "This is Spinal Tap." "Yes... but this one goes to eleven!"
     
  5. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    10th, 12th, 16th no matter, when you say 10th was the highest, well where does it say that and who said that? If your refering to Karate well what GM Cacoy does is not Karate.

    Plus you also have to look at the system name: Doce Pares = '12' Pairs. 12 is a very important number to Doce Pares, 12 appears in a lot of things, 12 strikes, 12 armara, 12 disarms, 12 Sayaw and the list goes on, hence you may find that the Rank as 12th Degree, not 12th Dan as that is for Japanese martial arts is reserved to those important people at the top and why not I say, why should he not have it, after all he is the last of the surviving Brothers who taught and trained in the original Doce Pares Club.

    Rank is something that each group in the FMA has their own interpretation on, like the FMA it's self it is not standardised and rue the day it is, it is what makes it so unique. Some use belts, some use paper, so use titles but all have some sort of ranking structure even if it is very basic in it's appearance, who are we to say that they should all use the same structure.

    And quite frankly is someone with the sature of GM Cacoy wanted to call himself 100th Degree, then I feel he has earned that right, how many people do you know who has survived as long as he has in the art and done so much. He is the last of the true FMA ledgends.

    Best regards

    Pat
     
  6. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Because it's unique.

    The proof of the pudding is in the eating as they say. I know people here in the UK that have been telling people they are the best limited armour fighters in the country yet there are people they will not fight and they have never once took part in any limited armour tournaments? There are those who beleive it or not claim to be the second highest ranking Eskrimadors in the World, like the rest of the Eskrimadors in the world got together and gave them this rank???

    There are those who have a right to wear the badge and those who carry a badge with a so called title on it, but dont even have a clue how to pin it on.

    There are those who write articles about the Philippines and how the art is practiced there yet have never gone further than the beaches of Cornwall.

    The problem here is that FMA has been building up gradually for many years, for instance it has been here in the UK for 40 years, yet all of a sudden it is the trendy thing to do, but who cares what title you use, you can either do it, or you cant and no matter how much you claim this or that, eventually one day all the BS catches up with you and you best make sure you can do or you soon find out you cant and then where is your title, rank, belt, magic spell book.

    Too many people pay to much attention to a peoce of cloth or a peice of paper and think that this buys them knowledge, but it is all just window dressing. True Masters of the FMA are easy to see when stood next to paper tigers.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2010
  7. flo0d

    flo0d Dingo

    As always, full of information Pat :)

    peace
     
  8. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    compared to taekwondo and karate??? where you at?

    very few fma'er give a hoot about rank.
     
  9. kuntaoer

    kuntaoer Valued Member

    I was taught that the man holding the stick with the most nodes was the highest rank.. Now where is my stick with 12 nodes?
     
  10. pmosiun

    pmosiun Valued Member

    It is the my d**k is bigger than your d**k.
     
  11. Lord Bathmat

    Lord Bathmat Valued Member

    <<Because it's unique.>> What do you mean it is unique.
     
  12. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    unlike other MA's we each have our own individual way of doing things right across the board, from teaching to ranking, we are not like other MA's, like has already been said we dont give a hoot about rank, we give a hoot about skill, the rest is simply window dressing. And unless you are the main man (which I doubt) then who cares, and who is to say who the main man is apart from the students who train under him and for them he is there main man, for everyone else they have their own main man. Quite unique dont you think?

    So who's your main man? And what rank and title has he given you? And do you think you deserve it? And do the rest of us really care?

    And what is one mans food is another mans poison.

    So in the greater scheme of things, as long as you are happy with the standards of both yourself and your students, who really cares what rank or title people give themselves, after all there is no one body (and probably never will be) that can say yes or no to anyones rank in FMA.

    Your rank is your ability and you either have it and know a bit, a lot or a whole lot, or you dont have anything. Let the stick do the talking is the FMA way.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2010
  13. Janno

    Janno Valued Member

    Like some of the guys have already said: A man is judged less on his backstory and qualifications, and more on his actual ability and attitude. Even with my limited experience with instructors in FMA, it seems like there are a fair few who've promised a lot, and have been given their instructor status in good faith, only to have gone and blown it when it comes to their actual performance under pressure.

    More tragically, i've seen some guys who've trained hard to reach instructor level, and then not know what the hell to do with it when they're left on their own two feet - thus losing faith in the system (and even themselves) and losing their interest in it altogether.

    Both types seem to either disappear into obscurity, or (in the case of the former) go around spending a few months in a system, before advertising their ability to teach it, getting busted on their lack of knowledge or practical ability, and then moving onto the next system where the cycle repeats itself.

    But surely a man should receive his status as a reward: Based upon his actual performance, commitment, and ability to accurately represent his system? Perhaps. But in my opinion, instructor grades are sometimes given as a way of "screening" the recipient. As i have found, becoming an instructor has all kinds of unpleasant small print that you never even knew existed as a student, and whilst it is one thing to earn one's status, it is another thing entirely to hold onto it.

    Whether status is given, bought, or earned, everybody will someday face their judgement day. Some will prove their worth and rise to the top. Others will be exposed as fakes and sink to the bottom. Some have yet to see themselves what they're made of. But i reckon that in time, everyone will be tested the same as everyone else.

    In addition, the diversity in the FMA means that students are encouraged - if only by the environment they are operating in - to eventually go in their own direction, with their own take on the system and the other knowledge they have picked up along the way. This ultimately results in several different evolutionary strands (systems), and thus a lot of new "top-dogs."

    I know that compared to some of the guys on this forum, i'm a little wet behind the ears, but i'm just calling it how i see it. I do hope that my observations won't upset anyone.
     
  14. Lord Bathmat

    Lord Bathmat Valued Member

    <<So who's your main man? And what rank and title has he given you? And do you think you deserve it? And do the rest of us really care?>>

    My main man is Steve Morris and Randy Coulture. True warriors that proved themselves over and over again.
     
  15. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I love Randy Coulture too.
     
  16. oosh

    oosh Valued Member

    When I think 'true warrior' - I think of the likes of Antonio Ilustrisimo, Leo Giron, Jesus Pallorina etc - warriors who fought for the independence and freedom of their country...literally fighting for their lives. When you have people with experience like that, I'm sure the whole rank/belt thing is quite amusing.
     
  17. Lord Bathmat

    Lord Bathmat Valued Member

    oosh,

    I agree, but you should also include all those individuals who fought in WWI & WWII etc etc.

    LB
     
  18. oosh

    oosh Valued Member

    err this is the Filipino Martial Arts forum and the men mentioned were/are practitioners of said arts who fought in world war II...I'd say they must have proven themselves time and time again. You seem to have some sort of issue with fma, at least that's the feeling I get from your seemingly 'innocent' and 'innocuous' questions...perhaps I'm wrong...are you an fma practitioner yourself?
     
  19. Lord Bathmat

    Lord Bathmat Valued Member

    Hi oosh,

    I do practise FMA and have no issue with the art at all. The only issue I have (and this applies to all martial arts) is that there are many people who are very good at exaggerating stories about their so called masters (eg he's never lost a fight, he's won over 100 fights etc etc). And as i have seen that there are many people that have a high grade after a short time of training and they aren't very good.

    You may ask why do i study FMA? And the answer is because for me i think it is extremely practical. I like the fact (in my opinion) it brings together the best of both worlds (Western and Eastern Martial Art principles). Don't misinterpret what i said about western martial arts. I know that FMA started in the Philipines but it my opinion it has western principles in that it discards what is useless and keep what is beneficial.

    LB
     
  20. oosh

    oosh Valued Member

    Fair enough, not all the stories you hear about the old masters are exaggerated, some are spot on if not understated...but then again some are complete fabrications and rather tall tales
     

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